GNOME3 & its Distros, like Fedora: Why?



  • [color=#8800ff]Hello When i thought i might raise this possibly controversial topic today, it was prompted in my mind by yesterday's Fedora/Chapeau VM experiment i did when chasing an issue with [i]"Insert Note into editable fields"[/i] as noted in https://vivaldi.net/en-US/teamblog/121-snapshot-1-3-501-6-customizable-ui-themes . On my Tower i have installed many different Linux x64 distros & associated Desktop Environments as VB VMs over the past couple of years, so i can play around & expose myself to other flavours than what i'm used to. Two of the newer [to me] VMs are Fedora 23 & Chapeau 23; though it was some months ago now that i installed their VMs, i've only explored them a very little so far. I readily admit i am FAR from proficient with them. I feel, whilst not necessarily competent, at least far less incompetent with Debian-based distros... but even here, the DE makes ALL the difference for me [love KDE, dislike Cinnamon, hate GNOME3, would probably use something with GNOME2 had i not discovered KDE]. When i fired up the Chapeau VM yesterday for my test, & tried to fathom how to go about installing Vivaldi RPM therein, i remembered instantly my initial shock from original installation months before. To be blunt, & NOT wanting to rile anyone, i just find the whole GNOME3 experience... really horrible. So far there's [i]nothing[/i] i've found that i like about it. Its whole desktop management metaphor feels obstructive, cumbersome & terribly old-fashioned to me. I know however from general reading over the past few years that the Linux world has torn itself apart many times over the whole GNOME2 vs GNOME3 furore, so i have nothing novel to bring to the table. Before commencing this thread i read the following with much interest: 1. https://vivaldi.net/en-US/forum/linux/515-ubuntu-gnome-the-best-of-two-worlds 2. https://vivaldi.net/en-US/forum/linux/167-favorite-desktop-environment?start=20 3. https://vivaldi.net/en-US/forum/linux/8055-from-windows-to-linux 4. https://vivaldi.net/en-US/forum/linux/155-what-distro-do-you-use I should confess that i'm a refugee from the Windows 3.1-3.11-95-NT4-2000-XP-7-10 world [soooo very happy no longer to use Win*, but aware that coz of my decades with it vs only a few years with Linux, i am definitely a GUI-Girl not a Konsole-Kween (excuse the misspelling to force the crappy alliteration)]. I'm sure that's a major reason i love KDE so much, & therefore probably why so far Fedora / GNOME3 does not float my boat. Also, i deliberately spec'd my Tower to be a nice toy/plaything for me, so i have a decent i7 cpu, 32 GB RAM, primary SSD & secondary 2 TB hdd, & use /tmpfs... hence the often maligned heavy overhead of KDE vs others is of little concern to me. * December 2013: began mucking about with Ubuntu, Xubuntu & Mint KDE VMs on my Lappy via Live ISOs, rapidly disliked the first two & rather liked Mint [16]. Converted Lappy to dual-boot of Win7 with Mint16KDE. Upgraded to Mint17KDE & felt increasingly "sad, constrained & oppressed" every time i needed to boot back into Win7. Bought my Tower to expand my playing, & made it native Mint 17.3 KDE, with Win7 only on VM, later upgraded to Win10. Recently managed to complete my migration fully to Linux by establishing my new paradigm to eliminate my Outlook 2010 dependence that had been the only anchor still to needing to run my Win10 VM. Happy happy. Finally then, here's my question. [b][u]Would the devotees of Fedora & GNOME3 please make a case to me, why i'm being unfair to it/them & why i should look again? [/u][/b]I ask that in a genuine spirit of collegiate curiosity; i'm uninterested in fighting, but merely, genuinely, relish opportunities for me to expand my horizons & learn interesting new things. So, please be gentle with me. ======================================= My on-SSD OS = Linux Mint x64 17.3 KDE 4.14.2. ======================================= [/color]



  • fedora is my main OS, and i would like to respond. you're not being entirely unfair, as this is a matter of preference. i have never had a problem installing vivaldi from package on any desktop. you may prefer korora. hardware drivers are making me look more seriously at this distro. it is friendlier to non-free software. gnome3 is a fairly heavy overhead on my systems, no major advantage vs. kde, especially when your hardware is stronger than mine. kde is based on qt, gnome3 on gtk. this will run some programs faster than others. make sure to explore mate desktop, it is similar to gnome2. i started on gnome3 and am having problems with kde. most people consider kde to be better and more customizable. debian-based is probably a better place to start. i ran mint for longer than i've done fedora, mint was where i started. kde uses the same library as qupzilla, you might want to try that browser at some point. i am thinking of changing to mint18kde, as fedora and manjaro are giving me systemd issues. mint 18 ci remembers my desktop brightness setting. a minor detail that makes my change away from gnome keep in mind that mint 18 brings kde 4 up to kde 5. fedora 24 has kde 5 as well. there may be new minor details that resonate with you in this change.



  • Fedora is a good distro

    But you should split the discussion about desktop environment from the distro itself

    I've used RedHat then Fedora for ages, and I never used Gnome. You can have the DE you like one the distro you like, and you can have many of them and choose the one yu like more according to your mood on each logon.

    The distro itself should be chosen on different basis.

    The package management it uses, the support and documentation

    You may like to have a precooked one like ubuntu, fedora, PClinuxOS, Mint, or you may like to install just what you need like Arch or Gentoo, you may like a good middle way like Manjaro and so on.

    Speaking about Gnome3 it the linux countermpart of Win8 UI.

    Bot of them are (were) intended as a way to unify the UI for classic PCs, Tablets smartphones and so on.

    Both of them proved to be failures at least in the initial status.

    Personally I'll never use those UI on a PC, I use Trinity (a modern kde3), but also I like a lot how Manjaro customized its XFCE spin.

    Give them a try.



  • The_Solutor, that was a great answer. versatility is something im trying to get better at. some distros do integrate with desktop environments better than others, usually not an issue. The_Solutor, do you have an opinion on salix or ratpoison? does vivaldi lisence prevent being included in some repositories? any hope of an arch linux vivaldi version?



  • Golly, i'd entirely forgotten about this post, given it was ignored by everyone for so long, so it's lovely to finally see some activity. Thank you to both of you for your responses, & i found your perspectives very interesting.

    Maybe one day i might be sufficiently competent in all aspects of Linux that i could "bake my own" solution, but i'm a long way yet from that level of talent. Hence in the meantime i do need my hand to be held, by a "complete package" solution.

    Since my original post, i've changed the OS on both my Tower & Lappy. In researching my options i played around in multiple VMs with many possibilities, one of which was rather ironic, considering my original post… Fedora 24 KDE. This was a great example of the wisdom of your words, Solutor; "...Fedora … and I never used Gnome. You can have the DE you like one the distro you like ... distro itself should be chosen on different basis. The package management it uses, the support and documentation". Despite my intense aversion to Gnome3, KFedora24 was actually quite pleasant to use, but that was due to its KDE DE, with which i am very comfortable. However this still did not become my new permanent OS, due to the Fedora aspect [including i don't like its package mngt system; somehow i like the Debian/*buntu system better].

    Regarding DEs, i have played with Ubuntu & Mint MATE [but it feels too "boxed in" for my liking], Mint Cinnamon [really dislike this], Xfce [via Mint & Linux Lite; second only after KDE i've decided i really like Xfce], & my "true love" KDE. In the end, after months of playing & testing, i went with Xfce on Lappy & KDE Plasma5 on Tower. Re the latter, in the short time i've been with Maui, i am really impressed with it.

    …..........................................................................................................................................................................
    Tower's SSD OS = Linux Mint x64 17.3 KDE 4.14.2. [< 26/9/16]; Maui Linux Aurora Plasma 5.8.0.
    Lappy's SSD OS = Linux Mint x64 17.3 KDE 4.14.2. [< 18/9/16]; Linux Mint x64 18 Xfce+Compiz.



  • although i have installed multiple DEs on the same distro, i never tend to make use of them. my current pastime is trying to convince myself to use wayland (instead of x11) and understand how wayland works. some people are into the multiple DEs on the same computer though, so you might want to try that.



  • Why I use Fedora:

    • It packages cutting edge software
    • However, it has paid developers and is really solid and tested
    • Has all the bells and whistles you'd expect
    • Has the stability and compatibility features that make it work where others fail
    • Is not Ubuntu :D (root shell!)

    Fedora's own tools are, of course, Gnome-based, and the Fedora KDE experience has traditionally been bare-bones and sometimes dysfunctional. There's an on-going effort to correct that situation I believe.

    Fedora is also aimed more at power users, professionals and workstations, because it's the basis for Red Hat Enterprise Linux.



  • Speaking about fedora…

    I love this "crazy" idea. :woohoo:

    http://www.heliocastro.info/?p=291



  • @kumiponi:

    Why I use Fedora:

    • It packages cutting edge software
    • However, it has paid developers and is really solid and tested
    • Has all the bells and whistles you'd expect
    • Has the stability and compatibility features that make it work where others fail
    • Is not Ubuntu :D (root shell!)

    Fedora's own tools are, of course, Gnome-based, and the Fedora KDE experience has traditionally been bare-bones and sometimes dysfunctional. There's an on-going effort to correct that situation I believe.

    Fedora is also aimed more at power users, professionals and workstations, because it's the basis for Red Hat Enterprise Linux.

    Is Krita 3.x a happy camper w/ the Fedora Design Suite?
    Will appImage work w/ FDS?
    I'm looking to flee from windows or avoid fruity-cults; if I can…



  • https://apps.fedoraproject.org/packages/calligra-krita
    looks like not quite. another version of fedora comes out before end on year, so maybe then. it said 2.9 i think. this is a updated rpm package https://pkgs.org/download/krita3, although i'm not sure how well is will work on fedora.



  • then there's https://alternativeto.net/software/krita/?platform=linux. i use gimp, but my graphics needs are basic. don't forget wine and playonlinux.



  • @640k said in GNOME3 & its Distros, like Fedora: Why?:

    Is Krita 3.x a happy camper w/ the Fedora Design Suite?
    Will appImage work w/ FDS?
    I'm looking to flee from windows or avoid fruity-cults; if I can…

    https://catalin-festila.blogspot.com/2016/11/fedora-and-krita-software.html



  • ArchLinux >>> ALL
    Fedora for me is not cool, because he broken my GRUB 2.0beta, by the stupid grub Fedora... and with that, my Windows boot is broken, he explain me "Windows Sign is invalid", approximately message...
    For me Fedora, this NO !


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