Why are changelogs so difficult to find?



  • One of the nice things about Opera Classic was that changelogs were always easy to find for every release, in a consistent place. Every time I see there is a new Vivaldi version, I feel like I have to search all over the place to figure out where the Changelog is. Why not just put it on the download page? Or a page of its own? ([b]EDIT:[/b] I see that Vivaldi posts some changelogs on its blog - which is better than nothing but I don't consider that ideal, personally. Especially since, as of today, there is [b]nothing[/b] on the blog that pertains to the Windows version I downloaded today: 1.1.453.55) After many years of I.T. work I have learned to never simply install an update because it's "new and shiny". I want to know what I am installing. Thanks.



  • There's a link to the Changelogs on that blog page for those who want to read the small print.



  • @Pesala:

    There's a link to the Changelogs on that blog page for those who want to read the small print.

    Usually, yes.
    However, there is no entry for the last two updates of Vivaldi 1.1 ??
    Vivaldi 1.1.453.55
    Vivaldi 1.1.453.59



  • It should be easy to have just one URL for release notes rather than an ever-changing variety of them. Linking to it in important places, like the Download page, would be a good idea, too.



  • @Pesala:

    There's a link to the Changelogs on that blog page for those who want to read the small print.

    On what blog page? I can't find any general link anywhere. I apparently have to wade through all the blog posts hoping to find something about the version I just downloaded, and as TbGbe mentioned, there appears to be nothing there for the particular version I mentioned in my OP here anyway.

    TBH I think the whole web presence is confusing. The blog is in a completely non-obvious place (At the root of "vivaldi.net") and its page title says nothing about "blog", it's called "Vivaldi Web Browser Community" just like the vivaldi.net pages that the forums and KB live on, the regular website "Vivaldi Help" and download pages are at vivaldi.com, some other things like about and legal pages linked at the bottom of pages on vivaldi.com point to pages on "vivaldi.rocks"… it's a big jumble.

    [[b]Edit: It looks like the "vivaldi.rocks" pages are something else in my browser history, that was my mistake.]

    I still think they should just put a link to changelogs on the general download page, which is what Opera used to do. I guess they're trying to engineer more clicks on the blog page or something?





  • @TbGbe:

    Ok.
    Now there is a new blog post
    https://vivaldi.net/en-US/teamblog/114-snapshot-1-2-479-8-more-keyboard-shortcuts-and-a-small-update-to-1-1

    This has a link to V1.1 change log at
    https://update.vivaldi.com/update/1.0/relnotes/1.1.453.59.html

    Just had to be patient :)

    Thanks for that, but it needs to be said that the whole point of a changelog is so people can decide BEFORE they install something, whether they want to do so or not.

    And I still have to sit and stare at that post before I can determine it actually applies to what I downloaded, AND the version they actually mention is NEWER than what I downloaded.

    Just don't understand why it's so difficult to have a changelog next to or presented with the thing you are considering downloading right that moment. :P



  • @ImaginaryFreedom:

    Thanks for that, but it needs to be said that the whole point of a changelog is so people can decide BEFORE they install something, whether they want to do so or not.

    And I still have to sit and stare at that post before I can determine it actually applies to what I downloaded, AND the version they actually mention is NEWER than what I downloaded.

    I agree that we should be able to check the changelog before downloading and I cannot remember if it was presented in the "Update Available" window (as is usually the case for Vivaldi).
    However, just to pick nits, your two statements are contradictory. If there was no changelog, why did you download the "unknown"? Surely, you should have waited until the info WAS available?

    Also, the posted changelog is cumulative and has all changes for each version between V1.1.453.59 and V1.0

    @ImaginaryFreedom:

    Just don't understand why it's so difficult to have a changelog next to or presented with the thing you are considering downloading right that moment. :P

    As I said, I cannot remember if it was presented in the "Update Available" window (as is usually the case for Vivaldi).
    Although, I also admit I didn't read it if it was there as I expected there to be a changelog post on the blog :oops:

    In the end I think that the last update to V1.1 was an unusual situation because of an "urgent" security update for a Stable release.



  • @ImaginaryFreedom:

    Thanks for that, but it needs to be said that the whole point of a changelog is so people can decide BEFORE they install something, whether they want to do so or not.

    Vivaldi is not Opera 3x. It doesn't install silently any update.

    Changelogs are provided, either in the official changelog page, in the upgrade pop-up, and in the blog (depending the stream are you using).

    The news about the updates are also posted here, in social networks and so on.

    So I really can't understand where the problem is.

    Vivaldi is (and was since the day one) the most respectful program ever of the user preferences (often even the most bizarre ones).

    And its developers are always helpful, interacting often with users on the blog and here.

    You can even interact with Vivaldi's CEO that, although busy, often spend his time replying in first person to user's questions and suggestions.

    Where else you can find this scenario on a mainstream, commercial SW?



  • Some people should not use Betas and Snapshot versions. The whole point of using test versions is to find bugs and report back to the developers with Bug Reports and suggestions to improve the browser.

    Those who just want to browse the Internet with the least possible hassle should stick to using their default browser, and try out each new Final version to see if they like it.



  • Pesala,

    Vivaldi 1.1 is a Stable release, not a Beta or Snapshot.



  • @The_Solutor:

    Vivaldi is not Opera 3x. It doesn't install silently any update.

    I never claimed it silently installed an update. (though - see below)

    @The_Solutor:

    Changelogs are provided, either in the official changelog page

    Where is this official changelog page? No one has provided it ITT so far. If there was a static URL with all the changelogs on it, there would have been no reason for me to create this topic.

    So far, no changelog specific to the version I mentioned in my OP has ever been produced. (There was one which appeared after my OP which TbGbe kindly pointed-out, but it was for a different (newer) build than the build I downloaded from the standard download page here.)

    @The_Solutor:

    The news about the updates are also posted here, in social networks and so on.

    I don't think anyone should be required to spend a bunch of their time seeking-out an ever-changing new post in a new location for every upgrade every time they install an update for a frequently-updated application. This is standard industry practice. The only software developers who have a consistent habit of hiding this info are corporate/closed-source vendors who are trying to manipulate the public's perception of their product by not being open about it. I had higher hopes for Vivaldi than to play that game.

    It's not like they don't publish this information - it seems to be scattered into ever-changing blog and forum posts. So the information is already out there, it's just a PITA to waste user's time making them go searching for it every time. Even having a STATIC/pinned forum page would be a vast improvement over having to slog through all the posts looking for yet another new post about a new build every.single.time.

    Sure, there are people that don't give a leap about knowing that stuff, and that's fine. I'm not one of them, and the more Vivaldi wastes my time every time I do an upgrade to have to go rooting around looking for this stuff, the less likely I am to use and recommend the product for both my own devices as well as client's devices.

    @The_Solutor:

    Vivaldi is (and was since the day one) the most respectful program ever of the user preferences (often even the most bizarre ones).

    You may be suffering from some perspective issues there. Claiming the program is "respectful" is one thing. Claiming it's the "most respectful in the world since the beginning of time" is annoying (and inaccurate) hyperbole.

    @The_Solutor:

    You can even interact with Vivaldi's CEO that, although busy, often spend his time replying in first person to user's questions and suggestions.

    Where else you can find this scenario on a mainstream, commercial SW?

    I may well contact Jon at some point to share some of my thoughts on these things.

    As for "where else you can find" – do you really want me to compile a list for you? I don't think it's helpful to the tone of discourse to make all of these sweeping universal claims that you keep making.

    If I were an "enemy" of Vivaldi I wouldn't be here. I am providing constructive ideas and criticism because I want the product to be good, and to succeed.

    PS: Re: the "silent update" thing - it seems that users have no control over when extensions update themselves. At least none that I can find. There is a strangely-named "Developer Mode" which, as far as I can tell, only provides an option to immediately update all the extensions. The problem is the converse: I do not want the browser to silently update extensions which are working 100% well, for some unknown-to-me new version which might be broken or buggy, at a time unknown to me, so that I discover the hard way that some critical function (like blocking trackers or malicious javascript) was broken through an update without my knowledge, putting me at risk.



  • @ImaginaryFreedom

    Frankly I think you are the kind of person who like to argue more because the pleasure to do it, rather than having problem the problem fixed/explained

    You may don't like the hyperbole (which are there for a reason, to make a point clear even if trough a small exaggeration), but I don't like to have my word split in four, especially if the matter is pretty simple, like in the current case.

    I' got your point, and I'm sure you got mine and the one expressed by the other posters.

    Going on would be a pointless dialectical ping pong that I don't want to feed more than I did



  • @The_Solutor:

    @ImaginaryFreedom

    Frankly I think you are the kind of person who like to argue more because the pleasure to do it, rather than having problem the problem fixed/explained

    One could just as easily claim that someone who made an assertion like the above is just a petulant child which doesn't like anyone to ever disagree with them. Neither are useful or constructive responses.

    Suffice to say that you are wrong in that inflammatory accusation.

    Furthermore, it appears that Vivaldi staff have heard the same complaints from others and are actually planning to do precisely what I was hoping they would do. (Quoting comment on the blog post - I see no way to permalink to an individual blog comment:)

    https://vivaldi.net/en-US/teamblog/120-vivaldi-1-2-with-mouse-gestures

    "Team_Vivaldi 1 day ago
    Thanks for the great tip, we'll definitely look into it :)
    Changelog is on its way, thanks for being patient with us!"



  • I second the request for proper changelogs available along all versions. I can't find any changelog for 1.5 at all.



  • @punchyrascal said in Why are changelogs so difficult to find?:

    I second the request for proper changelogs available along all versions. I can't find any changelog for 1.5 at all.

    Did you look at the blog?
    https://vivaldi.net/en-US/teamblog/181-lighten-up-your-day-with-vivaldi-browser



  • Quite hard to find.

    Why not just add a link in the about menu?



  • @freMea yes, that would be the best option.
    I am one of those constantly looking for Vivaldi changelogs and always finding it too difficult to find them.
    Firefox has recently added a link to the changelog in its about box and that's the best and most logical place IMO.


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