Adding a mail address only used for sending mails (not receiving)

mihawk90

Hello there,

I have a question/issue that I can't quite figure out. The situation is this: I have a single mail account that is accessible via 2 separate mail addresses. Both work for the login and accessing the same mails. I set this up years ago back when I needed a more "serious" mail address as opposed to my "casual" address that I set up as a kid. So essentially this is the same account under 2 different addresses.

I can't quite figure out how to add this second address as only a sender address. I tried adding a second "account" in the mail settings (even though it is technically not), and removing the "Incoming Server" settings, but that will only make Vivaldi complain that it the fields are empty and so I can't actually save that account.

When I leave the "Incoming Server" as is, I can select the sender address when composing a mail (which is what I want), but then I also get another mail account in the mail panel, and all the custom folders are doubled (one per "account"), which is a bit off-putting. And as a side effect, I also get a confirmation which account I want to delete the mails from for each mail I delete... which, yeah

Am I missing something? Is this just not (yet) possible? Is there another way? I can't imagine I'm alone with this

Hope someone's got a hot tip for me.

gmg

There is no send only address at the moment. But have been about to add it for a while.

Since these are the same mails though in both accounts the deduplication should mean that even when you set up both accounts and it will still only download the mail body once.

So setting both up for now shouldn't hurt

mihawk90

@gmg Thanks, at least I'm not totally blind then

Yes, the dedup works as expected, mails are only visible once. Only the custom folders show up twice and I guess I can just minimise the account listing for now.

gmg

You should be able to unsubscribe from the custom folders in one account to get rid of that issue.

Just right click a folder and click unsubscribe.

mihawk90

Hah, perfect, didn't even think about that

Yup, works fine

Seiichi

@gmg said in Adding a mail address only used for sending mails (not receiving):

There is no send only address at the moment. But have been about to add it for a while.

Since these are the same mails though in both accounts the deduplication should mean that even when you set up both accounts and it will still only download the mail body once.

So setting both up for now shouldn't hurt

Does this mean that Vivaldi Mail will be able to support different emails from Google Workspace? eg [email protected] and [email protected] which is one account, but with two addresses?

mihawk90

@gmg Hm so unsubscribing from the folders in one account works... for a time. But after restarting Vivaldi both accounts sync their subscriptions. The same when I then turn the subscriptions back on (after the restart), and restart again... then both the accounts get the same subscriptions again.
So as long as I don't restart, that works fine. Maybe the subscriptions are going only by folder-name, instead of account+folder-name?

gmg

@Seiichi I would presume that would work the same way, but I haven't tried it

@mihawk90 That sounds like a bug. Would you mind making one?

WildEnte

@gmg thanks for all your comments recently also giving us a glimpse in your development efforts.

Could you explain what deduplication means? I had some emails that I sent from my vivaldi.net account to the same vivaldi.net account. The email correctly shows in all accounts both in the imap inbox and folders, it also appears when I click on "all messages" and use search, but it does not show if I search for it in all messages - received or all messages - sent (Bugged as VB-74552)

Seeing you use the word deduplication makes me think this is connected.

mihawk90

@gmg said in Adding a mail address only used for sending mails (not receiving):

@mihawk90 That sounds like a bug. Would you mind making one?

Did some more testing and it is not just after a restart, filed as VB-76362

gmg

@mihawk90 Ok, so I've thought about this a bit more.
If it's exactly the same account then the subscriptions to folders are going to be the same. Then I thought about making an account offline and unsubscribe from it, but we're currently not showing that option in the context menu after you turn an account offline. we're working on import at the moment and that will fix a couple of issues with making an account offline, but that's besides the point.

So bottom line is, we need to add aliases and/or send only accounts in your specific case. It's on the list

gmg

@WildEnte Regarding deduplication and how that works (here goes nothing ).

We download the content for each message that you've opened (or prefetched) and have one folder per account stored in the Mail/ folder in your profile. This is so that you can copy or make a backup of the messages separately.
...but if the same message is in many folders in the same account then we store it only once for that account.
Furthermore, in the db, we only store the headers and tokens (used for search) for a message once regardless of how many copies of the message are across folders and accounts.

P.s. By default, prefetching messages is not turned on, and therefore, if you do not select a message, the body content will not be stored in the Mail/ folder.
This also means that a message's body content will also not be searchable unless it's already been fetched in another account (Note: the subject and headers: from,to,cc etc are always searchable)

WildEnte

@gmg many thanks for the explanation, makes sense to do it this way of course. I looked at the buggy email I sent from my vivaldi.net account to my same vivaldi.net account, it also contains all the meta info added by the server also when I look at it in the sent folder of the account. So it seems that in this case, you keep the file that has more information (which again makes sense).

I also have an email that I used M3 to send an email from my web.de Account to my vivaldi.net Account. If I click on that email in the sent folder of the web.de account, it tells me it appears in Sent, INBOX. If I view the raw message from the sent folder of the web.de account, there is little meta info, if I show the raw message in the Inbox of the vivaldi.net account, it contains all the meta info added through the server communication. So M3 realizes it's the same message in both accounts and thus notes it as identical in the database (which affects search) but the two files are both kept because they are in different accounts.
-> only remaining difficulty is: which of the two files do you open when I open the raw message from search? Could be either file.

Back to "my" bug VB-74552, which I believe may still be connected to the deduplication: your algorithms somehow have to decide what not to put in the search DB to avoid dupes. Is it overdoing it? See the screenshots below: first screenshot shows a search in all messages for a mail test123 from June 7th 2020 at 20:55, but this email does not exist in either all messages -> received (second screenshot) nor all messages -> sent (third screenshot).

WildEnte

@gmg said in Adding a mail address only used for sending mails (not receiving):

Regarding deduplication and how that works

Thanks for the explanation, I wonder what the actual benefit of deduplication is? (I suspect it is the root cause for my pet bug VB-79700)