Vivaldi’s take on the antitrust case against Google



  • @steffie: Back in the day Google was the smarter choice, much faster and better than the competition. Actually in fairness they still are.



  • @biggly

    Back in the day Google was the...

    ...company who publicly promulgated an ethos to Not Be Evil. Indeed back then, they were fabulous, after the utter uselessness of Alta Vista & such to produce actually pertinent search results.

    That was then, this is now. They became evil.



  • The Vivaldi Team gets it. For those who don't, read Shoshana Zuboff's book "The Age Of Surveillance Capitalism." You will be shocked at how much power Google and Facebook have over our lives. They know everything about us on or offline, package it, and sell our most personal data, feelings, and emotions to the highest bidders. AND YOU GET NOT A DIME. Kudos to Vivaldi for trying to protect our personal data!!!



  • @Cathbad , 100% privacy protection does not exist on the web, nor Vivaldi and neither can any extension or tool protect us, if we continue to use Google as a search engine or post on Facebook, WhatsApp, Instagram, etc. even when are we going to piss.
    To combat it, the first thing is to stop using them, the second to be discreet with our data, only then can Vivaldi and some extensions and tools comply with protecting our data.



  • Well this article just motivated me to install Vivaldi on my mobile devices and stop using Chrome. I'll do the same on my computer if I ever have a need for one.



  • While I applaud Vivaldi's well reasoned support for the DOJ's effort to reign in Google, I think the rationale misses the most important factor by a wide margin. Economically, there's a huge danger to Vivaldi, other search engines, large and small businesses and consumers. That type of damage is so ubiquitous, it is impossible to deny.... Yes, by all means fix it now.

    But, what difference does it make if Google controls all the money and commerce, or that control is returned to all of us, as it was in the 1990's and before? You see, Google has a much much more potent weapon than that formidable economic strength that does exist today. And, that other "hidden power" can also subvert any and all efforts to try to reverse that economic monopoly. What is this magical strength?? It's merely the power to control your mind, and by extension, everything you believe is true, and everything you will conclude, based on the "false evidence" that Google et al can produce at will.

    As of today, we've only begun to see the effects. Although I will give other examples of Google exerting this power, many may question the motives for these examples. Why?? Because merely questioning the motives of any reports IS a tool to divert any thought of the validity or importance of any facts presented. Imagine if Google were truly concerned with this article, which I doubt they are at present. If they decide it is important, they could easily ensure that most of the public never learns of this article, or ANY positive opinions of the DOJ efforts. Further, they could use a vast number of tools, to ensure that ALL opinion turns to support Google, and negates any DOJ efforts.

    If these tools don't work, with a market value of 1 Trillion, they can easily buy their way out of any enforcement. But, I doubt if you will see any efforts to do this. Why?? If I were Google, why waste my time, when if it does become an issue, it can be headed off, long before it has any real effect on Google. So, if they don't have time for this, where are they using their tools?? Read on...

    My next points will likely be made moot, because it appears to be "political". And, if it is politically motivated, then "it can't possibly be true". Using that logic, no one could ever question anything that is painted with the "political" moniker. So, the debate is shifted to determining if the MOTIVES are political, and AWAY from any real investigation of the truth. This of course, would be impossible, if you aren't motivated by the same opinions that are supported by the majority of media and press, which includes Google, Amazon, Twitter, Facebook, and all their subsidiaries.

    You see, the tech firms can insure what you believe is the truth, by both hiding it, and also by diverting your attention enough, so you won't honestly consider if the "facts" might be made up.

    Study the tools and tactics of every totalitarian system that ever came to power, and you will see the identical patterns, tools, and tactics. Know why Castro held Cuba for over 60 years? Immediately after taking power, he seized and controlled all the media and communications systems. Russia did the same in their revolution. Germany effectively recruited the medical community to help improve the genetic makeup of the people... with the devastating measures required to bring this about, hidden, obscured, or justified as "temporarily necessary", until the full benefits would be evident.

    Think we are not seeing any of this yet?? I think we do, and any fair evaluation of the evidence can easily show this, and you can prove it to yourself, or anyone, IF you are open to the possibility. As I proceed, please suspend ANY judgment of "IF 'this' is true", or what the motives are for presenting these facts. Instead, only consider this:, "IF this is true, HOW important are the effects of it being true?"

    Current events dictate that the results of this test aren't changed by Google or other technology. We know that one tool used is to skew results, based on many searches by one IP. So, unless you are regularly using VPN, consider that your results might change, based on the one IP that your home network uses. But, let's ignore that for now, since tech firms seldom have to go to that added effort to skew results.

    Next, let's consider that your browser, using only cookies, is likely enough to "do the job" required. Remember too, that with any truly public search subject, you really have no alternative database to pull your results from. Added to this, most all the media, will also follow whatever the current "common intelligent opinion" is today. If expressing an opposite opinion, those media outlets or any individuals will be ostracized, or worse, attacked, REGARDLESS of the validity OR the implications if it was true.

    REQUEST TO VIVALDI for an ADDED DEFAULT right click option:
    I'd like to thank Vivaldi for making it much easier to choose my search engine, any time I highlight, and choose to search by right clicking and then choosing who I will use for my search. However, as an added required tool, PLEASE ALSO give me the option of searching, in an incognito / private window. Otherwise, using another engine I often use, will also have (or could have), skewed results that are designed to manipulate what I believe.

    Here's your test to see the recent extent of the "skewing of your opinions" and the "truth" of what is out there today.... Now.. DON'T stop reading now, (please??). It MATTERS if I am correct about the media bias, EVEN WITHOUT using the possibility of this being truth or false news, that I'm about to present. Don't believe me?? Use your OWN subject to search and test what I'm suggesting, and you can easily see the bias, if you want to honestly look and consider this subject:

    Now, open TWO separate windows... One private, and one regular Vivaldi window. Search for "Biden's hard drive" (with or without the quotes??). Use, Google, Bing, and DuckDuck, and others too, if you want. Try the SAME identical search, in BOTH the private window and the regular window. Imagine that you really didn't know much about the subject. Since virtually no media outlets have even acknowledged that the subject warrants wasting any time on this question, most of you really haven't had any good reason to care. So, what difference would it make if true?? There are two sides.. Determining who is correct however, will soon become a moot point, since the election is hours away.

    One opinion is fairly obvious: "Move on please, nothing to see here, no validity, and even if there were, 'everyone does it', so who cares?? And, IF it were true, the only reason anyone is bringing up, is for 'political reasons', so it should be discounted as likely not true, or not important, if those talking about this absurd assertion have a motive. It is so ludicrous, it isn't even worth a denial by Biden."

    But, what if it is true?? What are the "reports of importance" by those watchmen in the "false media", saying? They contend that IF it was true, that millions or billions have been regularly paid to the "Biden Family" to exert influence on Biden to either respond by "helping", or worse, if threatened with exposure, blackmail him into doing anything they want. Who?? They say, both Ukrainians, Russians, and also China. IF true, what COULD this do, to the security of the US?? To the economy?

    I will NOT make a judgment here, of which scenario is true. I WILL however, insist that you'd be a moron, if you didn't think it matters a LOT, IF it is true. And, you also have to admit, that if true it is ALSO VERY URGENT So, if it IS important to question if it is true, it should be easy to at least search, and see some evidence, right?? I wish it were...

    Instead, I'm asking you to look to see if there is any fair evaluation of these facts by others. From MY search results, most all are only mocking, excusing, or diverting any attention to this. If you only use the search pages themselves, the excerpts clearly show that for anyone that only goes this far, they'd be a moron to hit any of the links to read more. Indeed, 80-90% of the articles only mock the absurd assertions, "obviously made for only political reasons".

    So, if they aren't true, why is it derision about those reporting, that you are reading, rather than an honest rebuttal?? Hmmm, it sure looks like either Google is trying desperately to save me time by preventing me from clicking on ANY search results, or there's another motive I can't see.

    You decide which is true, but please do this with a bit of skepticism. Remember what Biden's brother said when asked about how they thought they could get away with this, when asked? He SMILED and said, "plausible deniability". That's all he, or VP Biden needs, if they already have the media and the tech giants to cover for them... And, he's right, it HAS and WILL CONTINUE to work to cover this up. That is, until and unless YOU don't compensate for the medias' and tech companies' bias and deception.

    If this is not changed, these tech giants, and ONLY these tech giants, will only provide you with a virtual reality that ONLY they have created, and NOT real life, and NOT for your benefit.



  • @steffie: The bigger the company, the evilier.



  • @greybeard: Google already indirectly controls the development of events, because their chromium engine is everywhere.



  • @Asires said in Vivaldi’s take on the antitrust case against Google:

    their chromium engine is everywhere

    I just went to make a peanut butter sandwich. Golly did i get a shock when i lifted out the PB jar from the pantry shelf, only to see yet another damn chromium engine scuttle away from where it had been lurking, back into the far darkened corner.



  • @Steffie I thought you followed this advice



  • @TbGbe Oh that was one of their best episodes ever -- so scary! Ta.



  • Probably confidential, but I was wondering which of the included search engines pays you the most royalties - so I can use them more often...


  • - Ambassador -

    @dshintag In July 2019 a blog article stated:

    Vivaldi generates revenue from partner deals with search engines.
    Every time you search using one of the pre-installed search engines, you’re helping us grow, one search at a time. Currently, we work with DuckDuckGo, Qwant, Ecosia, Startpage, Yahoo!, Bing, and Yandex.
    The only exception is Google – we don’t make money when you search with Google. However, we know that some of you use this search engine daily, so we include it in Vivaldi.



  • @jamesbeardmore: I agree with the gist of your post, but sadly there is no credible alternative to Google Maps that I'm aware of. It's just aeons better than the competition (Bing, Apple, HERE, OSM...).



  • @pesala: Oh, I know about those deals - just wanted to know if any one of them are more lucrative to Vivaldi than the others (e.g. does Bing pay Vivaldi more per search than DDG?).


  • - Ambassador -

    @dshintag I use Ecosia to plant some trees.



  • @Pesala , you can use also Lilo, same as Ecosia, but with social projects


  • Moderator

    @Catweazle Oh, this search engine has my german prename 💛



  • 👌 I have added the Lilo search to my search engine collection:

    https://forum.vivaldi.net/topic/46609/vivaldi-search-engines-collection



  • @Gwen-Dragon But it's a French search engine 🇫🇷.


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