Vivaldi browser and open-source

  • The most important in a bright software is that it works and it works well, not that it is open-sourced or closed-sourced. You guys at Vivaldi do a wonderful job with your browserS and what you deliver is (far) better than other competitors who care more about ethics than white elephants they propose to their users (I'm thinking to the collapsing 'fox saying that).

    I miss Presto and Carakan too. It was a wonderful browser couple, which made me love Opera at first sight when I saw them in action in Opera 10.50. I finally ditched it at 12.16 when I found that browser compatibility was not good enough. Vivaldi browser sweet talked to me when I saw what it consists in: the Presto-Opera based UX with the browser compatibility I missed in the final versions of the ancient Opera. That's why you became my default browser. Chromium is a good compromise.

  • @BoneTone said in Vivaldi browser and open-source:

    they aren't trying to be "the one browser for everyone."

    They are trying to be the one browser.
    ... provided you can make sense of the settings and customization and provided you have no extra wishes.

    When it boils down to the extra wishes: They cannot provide them.
    (Not meaning they do not want to provide them, but they simply cannot cater for all individual users)

    That's where Extensions come in - but Vivaldi is lacking in Extension support too, because some functions are incompatible with Vivaldi or have side effects, e.g. especially when it comes to tab management and power handling, because the UI of Vivaldi is different and they use some internal APIs which they did not expose for Extensions use.

    I know what I am talking about, because I ran several times into issues where the Extension worked fine in Chromium but caused issues in Vivaldi, despite I used only standard API calls and validated them with the latest ES validator. Sadly there is no developer relation set up, so we can't even ask how to solve those Vivaldi specific problems, because those who know the answers (aka. the devs) point us to the source code (4 GB packed!) which is partly written in languages I am not comfortable with (and I bet most of the Extension authors are not comfortable with those too) which in effect makes "fixing" annoyances almost impossible.

  • @jrsilvey said in Vivaldi browser and open-source:

    Back in 2017 I recall VIVIDLY how angry and upset I was when a huge number of tab features that had only been available when using Vivaldi suddenly appeared on Edge. In 2018 [...] Microsoft blatantly [stole] concepts, ideas (and most likely code) from Vivaldi

    The code bit aside, that sounds like good news to me! It's traditional for the other browsers to steal ideas from Opera. Ideas such as (if memory serves) tabs, speed diel, and using a search-engine from the browser's toolbar. That this tradition is continuing with Vivaldi, shows that Vivaldi is a worthy successor to the old Opera.

  • @Eggcorn , although it is true that Vivaldi is not OSS, at least not in the traditional sense, it has a great community of support and contribution, which large companies like Google or Microsoft do not have. They are oriented to what the administration decides for what is supposed to be of interest to users, they lack the feedback and ideas of a community like this one.
    This is the reason why they only limit themselves to making poor traces that they see in browsers like our.

  • @Catweazle You motioned Google and Microsoft, what about the Mozilla Foundation (they make Firefox)? And if they don't have a community like this one now, did they ten or fifteen years ago?

  • @Eggcorn , maybe, FF is OSS and has a community, but also as active as this? A Soft is always only as good as its community that supports it.
    Firefox is certainly a good browser, but it is not the same as Vivaldi.
    All browsers serve their purpose, even Edge. But the functionalities and the way of adjusting to the needs of the user differ greatly from one to the other.
    Edge works perfectly for people who only check their email or / and participate in a social network, but little else. Adding just like Chrome some bad copies of Vivaldi features makes them look just like the cartoon I put up.

  • @Catweazle I ask because: ten years ago or so, Firefox was a better browser then IE or Chrome. But it was no Opera! And Firefox has gone downhill since those days (it doesn't even have a status bar anymore).

    And that makes me doubt that it's really about community. I think it's more about goals. Opera ten years ago, and Vivaldi today, aim to highly customizable and feature-rich. And the others don't.

  • @Eggcorn , goals is the magic word, this is why an active and strong community is important, this determines whether the goals are in the interest of the company or those of the user community.

  • As a Linux user, I strongly prefer FOSS. I like Vivaldi, its customizability reminds of what Firefox used to be. I hope you will reconsider, otherwise I can see myself jumping a ship when I learn of some new/other FOSS browser that has features I want (e.g. installation of unsigned extensions, highly configurable UI and not backed [at least directly] by big tech).

  • @quiray , all this you can do in Vivaldi, you can use Extensions directly from GitHube, Sourceforge, etc., downloading the crx file and pulling it on the extensions page in developer mode, modding the UI more than in any other browser, no has relations with big companies.
    Vivaldi isn't FOSS, true, but only in tradicional definition, the code is open for audit.

  • Vivaldi Translator

    @Catweazle said in Vivaldi browser and open-source:

    no has relations with big companies

    This isn't entirely true. Vivaldi is "sponsored" by e.g. Microsoft (to include Bing as a search engine) and other companies (for search engines or bookmarks). Of course, this doesn't mean that Vivaldi is exchanging any data with these companies, but there are still relations there.

  • @Komposten , true, Vivaldi makes money by adding some sponsor links by default, including MS Bing as a search engine and others, apart from his shop co merchandising. The team also has to pay bills and the sync servers are not free either.
    I think it is preferable to trafficking with user data, as others do.

    See the Vivaldi business model

  • Vivaldi Translator

    @Catweazle said in Vivaldi browser and open-source:

    I think it is preferable to trafficking with user data, as others do.
    See the Vivaldi business model

    Yup, while Vivaldi has relationships with other companies (including big ones like MS), those relationships are healthy for both Vivaldi and the userbase rather than the more common "healthy for the company, bad for the users". 🙂

  • @Komposten , especially if it depends on the user himself if he supports this relationship or not. He is free to delete or use the links and search engines that Vivaldi has by default.

  • You could put the UI under a license that doesn't allow redistributing the code, but allows reading and modifying the code.

  • @georg-lehmann
    Well said, I think.

    <1> In the end it would boil down to offering the user
    <2> full freedom and customizability
    <3> and that is the mission of Vivaldi.

    (3) ... and that would be worth being the new mission of Vivaldi!

    I suppose, that was your last point?

  • @10Meisterbaelle , this is precisely what Vivaldi has done, the code is open for audit, but some parts are protected and not for free use.

  • Vivaldi can be in the official repos of many (if not most) Linux distros, in the non-free section. There has been a debate over that in Mageia (my favourite distro), and the only limit is finding someone with enough time to regularly package it. (If I find the time, I'll certainly be packaging it myself.)
    To me, Vivaldi is the best browser available on Linux. The fact that it is freeware, but with most of its' components open source, isn't to me a major problem, even though I have a strong preference for open source software for widely used applications, like web browsers. To me, none of the open source alternatives come close to Vivaldi.
    One factor, probably not commonly noted, is that like Opera before, you have excellent translations (at least into French), much better than the questionable translations in Chrome/Chromium, as well as Firefox.
    Keep up the good work !

  • @andr909 , Vivaldi is not only in the repos of many distros, in FerenOS is currently the default browser.
    I think that globalizing as simple freeware as closed sourced like Chrome or Edge, is not correct, since the source is open for audit but not all of it is free for use. It's like the NASA software, all of them is OpenSource, but some soft is restricted to goberment and agency use.
    I think therefore that Vivaldi is OSS (not in the traditional manner. OSrestricted?),

  • @Catweazle OSS? Vivaldi is not open source software, it’s proprietary. You keep mentioning it’s “open for audit,” but the truth is the code is minimized and obfuscated and it would be a very hard task to make sense of it. I would guess Vivaldi developers are working with a different version we don’t have access to.

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