PaleMoon browser



  • Inspired by this post: [url=https://vivaldi.net/forum/browsers/541-after-about-1-year-opera-why-do-you-not-rowing-back?start=20#7082]...Pale Moon is, in fact, rather pale out of the box-- looks like a weak sister of Firefox...[/url] The [url=http://www.palemoon.org/]PaleMoon[/url] browser is a fork of FF code to remove bloat and bring in the optimisations. I use it as a replacement-candidate for my current main browser Opera Presto. PaleMoon is hardly a 100%-replacement, but it is the best one available. It will not have the australis UI, it is complatible with all FF add-ons. I find PaleMoon to be "fast" enough - second only to Opera Presto on my machine. The only add-on I have is the PaleMoon Commander - the "Advanced options" manager. What do FF users think about PaleMoon and why someone could perceive it as a "weak sister" to FF?



  • OK, since this thread is a response to my response, maybe I ought to be one of the early replies.

    As it happens, I may be wrong. I admit to taking the most casual glance at Pale Moon and really not spending too much time with it.

    Further, it now appears that Firefox is in a hurry to have users help cripple their main offering, the Firefox browser itself. Opening it both yesterday and today, the Start window shows you how to remove buttons. "Home", "Downloading", "Bookmark this page" being amongst the buttons they're suggesting that you remove.

    I have a major problem with the concept, seems to me the big problem in browsers right now is that they want to make things so simple any low-information person could use it.

    Problem: When you finally make the browser foolproof, only a fool would want to use it. Personally, I like the buttons and want to keep them, and now I have a suspicion that Firefox has them slated for the chopping block in their race to become "just like Chrome".

    I'll have to give Pale Moon a closer look, and hope it survives the race to the bottom that browsers seem to be presently engaged in.



  • Pale Moon is the "closest" browser I have found in my search to replace Opera 12.17 (both 32 and 64). The problem is, 32 extensions later, it is still not in the league of Opera Presto. But I keep an eye on other projects coming along and wait and hope. ( I'm looking at you Otter…..)



  • @mjmsprt40:

    Further, it now appears that Firefox is in a hurry to have users help cripple their main offering, the Firefox browser itself. Opening it both yesterday and today, the Start window shows you how to remove buttons. "Home", "Downloading", "Bookmark this page" being amongst the buttons they're suggesting that you remove.

    I have a major problem with the concept, seems to me the big problem in browsers right now is that they want to make things so simple any low-information person could use it.

    Problem: When you finally make the browser foolproof, only a fool would want to use it. Personally, I like the buttons and want to keep them, and now I have a suspicion that Firefox has them slated for the chopping block in their race to become "just like Chrome".

    Personally, for several reasons, I always liked the minimal-button-set approach. Reasons such as:

    1. More screen real estate. For a long while, my only monitor at home was tiny and screen space was really valuable.

    2. Less confusion to the person to whom I am recommending Presto. Yes, I used to proselytise actively. The main selling point of Presto for myself was tweakability, whereas most other people prefer some vague "just works" concept, which the proselytiser must try to understand the way the person in question understands it. Consequently, I created setups that hid most of the buttons (surely we can all agree that the interface of v.7 was horrible out of the box) while placing other buttons with the most needed features visibly and conveniently. The result for me personally was an astoundingly Chrome-ish window long before Chrome even existed.
    3. Everything can be done with keyboard shortcuts and mouse gestures anyway. For me keyboard is faster, so many buttons were simply in the way. It made sense to keep only the buttons for functions that I could not find a convenient keyboard shortcut for.

    While point #2 may look as if I might prefer Chrome, point #3 is diametrically opposed to it. I tried Chrome at version 1 for a day or so and decided immediately that it's a hopeless dumbuser browser and should never gain much market share. Certainly not more than Opera. Oh how wrong I was. Now Chrome has killed Opera. In my defence, there had been a notable desktop project by Google just before Chrome: Google Desktop Search. This project didn't gain too much momentum, and faded away. So, I knew Google can fail. With Chrome, it would have been best for everyone if Google had failed. Chrome's failure on the market would have been good also for Google's own reputation.

    The closest feature set to Opera Presto is present in Seamonkey. And here I really mean the feature set, not the ease of use or ease of tweakability. Even with tons of tweaks, nothing comes close to Presto. It seriously would have been an immense service to humanity if Presto were open source and could be adopted for development and rebuilt freely without constraints.



  • @ersi:

    The result for me personally was an astoundingly Chrome-ish window long before Chrome even existed.

    Moose even removed everything but the pure blank window frame. No bars anywhere and no tabs but new windows instead. Everything was customized into mouse gestures, keyboard shortcuts and context menus. That was before Chrome and was chromier than even Google dares to make Chrome (yet).

    My personal setup is quite the opposite: 37 buttons on the view bar that I can toggle with another button ( :D ), permanent open panels at the side (including a ton of custom panels for all cases), permanent visible status bar and a lot of tabs open at the same time…

    Both settings, Moose's and mine, would be possible with a Mozilla/Gecko based browser too, thanks to XUL, but with way more effort, so in the end it is not really for me ...



  • I'm not sure what to write here. I've been using PaleMoon for some time now. Let's just say, before Vivaldi was here. Firefox is not even in the same rank, let alone "stronger brother", especially latest version (IMO worst of them all). Since Opera stopped making non-mobile browsers, there is only one browser that can match PaleMoon, Waterfox. Waterfox prove to be even faster than PaleMoon, but interface is rather n00by, like FF.
    As for buttons, I'm old-school CAD user. I like to place buttons where I choose, not to settle for what someone else did.
    Downside of PaleMoon is the fact that it's based on FF concept and coding. That means nothing works without add-ons. I need to use 9 add-ons, and 2 separate programs to customize it enough to get used to it.



  • I also quite like PaleMoon. It may very well replace Presto on my Windows box, But sadly nothing for linux…
    I still find that Chrome(ium)/Blink is bloatware so for now on Linux it is Presto, SeaMonkey or FF in that order.
    I see Midori way back there and am hoping it will become complete as that is one Webkit browser I might use.



  • I read on their forum - the linux build exists, the 64-bit version is also available.



  • @greybeard:

    I also quite like PaleMoon. It may very well replace Presto on my Windows box, But sadly nothing for linux…

    Palemoon is available for Linux, but more likely you have to build the package, depending on your distro. I personally have not tried it, but I see it available in the repos of my distro (Arch).



  • @greybeard:

    I also quite like PaleMoon. It may very well replace Presto on my Windows box, But sadly nothing for linux…
    I still find that Chrome(ium)/Blink is bloatware so for now on Linux it is Presto, SeaMonkey or FF in that order.
    I see Midori way back there and am hoping it will become complete as that is one Webkit browser I might use.

    Not that I use Pale Moon myself, but here's a link to its Linux version. It's a third party build, but it's officially endorsed.



  • Many Thanks Gort.

    I will check this out.



  • PaleMoon on Linux

    As an alternative to Opera (Presto) on Windows I tried, and rather liked the PaleMoon browser but was quite disappointed there was no version for my Linux machines (an old desktop and one of my laptops).
    Last week Gort pointed me to a third-party Linux version of PaleMoon.
    So here I am trying it out…

    Some good news if you are using PCLinuxOS, this software is in the repository so you can just start Synaptic, search for PaleMoon, select and install. For my OpenSuse, I could find no software packages. There is an "Installer" available so I downloaded it from Gort's link and ran that.

    It asks what version you want to install but has an option to view versions. I entered the latest version number and OK. There were a few error messages but it seemed to install properly regardless.

    Good news is that the browser for the most part works as expected.
    The bad news is that it does not work as expected on all platforms (distros).

    On my OpenSuse laptop for instance, PaleMoon (24.6.1) does not recognize any installed Plug-Ins (for either PDF readers or Flash). These Plug-Ins work properly in FF and SeaMonkey.
    Opening the Tools > Add-ons > Plug-ins page shows that there is nothing there in OpenSuse.
    So I uninstall then try the previous version 24.6.0 which seems to work properly.

    Other Good News
    PaleMoon seems more than competent to run various FireFox extensions. Even more-so than SeaMonkey as that browser is incompatible with EFF's Privacy Badger. The HTTPS Everywhere, Ghostery and SQLiteManager extensions also work.

    Personally I like PaleMoon and I will continue to use version 24.6.0 on OpenSuse and on my PCLinuxOS system and continue to evaluate newer versions.

    However I am still awaiting a browser with a Bookmark Manager as useful as that of Opera (Presto). I suppose I had better not hold my breath. :-(



  • @greybeard:

    Other Good News
    PaleMoon seems more than competent to run various FireFox extensions. Even more-so than SeaMonkey as that browser is incompatible with EFF's Privacy Badger. The HTTPS Everywhere, Ghostery and SQLiteManager extensions also work.

    A bit off-topic, but you could try out the Firefox & Thunderbird Add-on Converter for SeaMonkey, which can, as its name suggests, convert some extensions to work in SeaMonkey. The link provides a list of extensions that can and can't be converted. If the extension isn't on the list, then still give it a try to find out if it works or not, then maybe report your findings on the thread so others can benefit.


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