Introducing SMS verification for new Vivaldi Accounts



  • Sorry, but I have been following this topic for several days and I noticed a few suspicious things:

    1. Almost everyone who defends SMS verification is affiliated with Vivaldi and has colored labels (green, blue, red). I'm sure you express your own opinion, but for some reasons it looks like an "official party line". Hmm...
    2. You choose the cons that you can explain and ignore others one. You explained why you use a third-party service, but you ignore users who don't want to share their phone numbers. You explained that new roles works for new users only, but you still ignore people who don't want to share their phone numbers. What if new user don't want to give you a phone number? Say "Goodbye" to your growth (I can not recommend Vivaldi anymore). Do you want a tip? Just add the ability to remove a phone number from the database after verification.
    3. You did not warn us about your plans. Again! And now you want to discuss this. Why? For what? What will change? Nothing. The time has gone. You should open this discussion before you added forced SMS verification for all new users. That's why even old users are worried: we are afraid that it will be worse, we are sure that SMS verification for all users is a matter of time, we are worried that SMS verification will be changed to 2FA very soon (for "suspicious" users of course) and we are afraid that you will force all of us to use 2FA by SMS (the worst 2FA method), because this is so "private and secure".

    I remember the time when I could change my nickname and choose URL for my blog. You did not warn me that this will change soon. And it was because of WordPress-based blog platform and new WebMail too. Coincidence?


  • Moderator

    @Semenov-Sherin

    1. colored labels

    I am not a fan of this change. I know why it's here & necessary, but I still don't like it. None of us (that I am aware of) have been told to stick to a given line on this issue.

    1. What if new user don't want to give you a phone number

    They don't have to. Only if they want to use the blogs or mail. The browser, forums & sync are still usable without passing over a phone number.

    the ability to remove a phone number from the database

    The service provider vivaldi has partnered with says in their privacy policy that data isn't kept longer than necessary. From this we know that the moment your account is verified, or not, the data will be removed automatically.

    1. You did not warn us about your plans

    I think this is a legitimate concern, but given that the recent change only affects new users I'm not sure what would be gained by having announced it in advance.

    we are sure that SMS verification for all users is a matter of time

    That won't happen. If you're already a member and a spammer, your account would have been locked by now. It wouldn't make sense to verify all the accounts again by SMS or any other means.

    we are worried that SMS verification will be changed to 2FA very soon

    I don't understand this concern. You can't verify that someone isn't a spammer by 2FA.

    [...] because of WordPress-based blog platform and new WebMail

    Free blogs and webmail are high value targets for spammers. They need to be more protected or it risks everyone else's account value too.

    tl;dr if you already have an account, its not going to be any more locked down.

    I hope this helps alleviate your concerns.


  • Ambassador

    @Semenov-Sherin said in Introducing SMS verification for new Vivaldi Accounts:

    Sorry, but I have been following this topic for several days and I noticed a few suspicious things:

    1. Almost everyone who defends SMS verification is affiliated with Vivaldi and has colored labels (green, blue, red). I'm sure you express your own opinion, but for some reasons it looks like an "official party line". Hmm...
    2. You choose the cons that you can explain and ignore others one. You explained why you use a third-party service, but you ignore users who don't want to share their phone numbers. You explained that new roles works for new users only, but you still ignore people who don't want to share their phone numbers. What if new user don't want to give you a phone number? Say "Goodbye" to your growth (I can not recommend Vivaldi anymore). Do you want a tip? Just add the ability to remove a phone number from the database after verification.
    3. You did not warn us about your plans. Again! And now you want to discuss this. Why? For what? What will change? Nothing. The time has gone. You should open this discussion before you added forced SMS verification for all new users. That's why even old users are worried: we are afraid that it will be worse, we are sure that SMS verification for all users is a matter of time, we are worried that SMS verification will be changed to 2FA very soon (for "suspicious" users of course) and we are afraid that you will force all of us to use 2FA by SMS (the worst 2FA method), because this is so "private and secure".

    I remember the time when I could change my nickname and choose URL for my blog. You did not warn me that this will change soon. And it was because of WordPress-based blog platform and new WebMail too. Coincidence?

    The confirmation by SMS does not make me any grace either for 2 main reasons, for being a rather outdated method and for having important privacy problems, especially if it depends on a external service.That is why I said before searching among all an alternative solution to avoid spam. Not because I have a color badge, I am satisfied with all the decisions of the Vivaldi team, and I am not the only one with badges who think so. But I like more suggestions instead of just criticism and anger.Vivaldi is a creation among all of us and I just like that it remains that way.



  • @Semenov-Sherin Blog and webmail are just extras we (older users) got by default. If you don't want something that is not connected with the browser in any other way than the company, you don't have to enter your phone number anywhere.

    I'm also not very happy about this way of avoiding spam and would be very happy if we'd discuss more about alternative ways (how @Catweazle suggests) and one of them would become reality. But please don't forget it's only for registration to extra services.

    Edit: @Catweazle you could maybe open a new thread for this to not have the ideas mixed with general discussion.



  • @Semenov-Sherin said in Introducing SMS verification for new Vivaldi Accounts:

    New roles work for new users only. OK, but what if a new user has the same view on world like me? Are you sure you really can save my phone number? Are you sure we can trust your partners? 2FA via SMS must be optional!

    It is not 2FA - it is only a one time verification and only if you want to use the blog and webmail services. If you only want to use sync or the forums, you only need a working e-mail address.

    This is not about security, this is not about privacy, this is about spam. Hera are tons of smap and this is problem. So just add a CAPCHA.

    CAPCHAs are no solution and especially Google CAPCHAs are no solution.
    It was possible to take down "silk road", which was a hidden TOR service for drug dealers, because they used a CAPCHA.

    If verification by phone number is required, I can not recommend this browser to my friends anymore.

    What has the browser to do with the website?
    Maybe you cannot recommend the website, but I don't understand why you can't you recommend the browser ...



  • @QuHno said in Introducing SMS verification for new Vivaldi Accounts:

    What has the browser to do with the website?

    These are the same people and they never warned about their plans. Yesterday you couldn’t know that they would do this. Now you cannot be sure that tomorrow they will not do something else.


  • Ambassador

    @Semenov-Sherin said in Introducing SMS verification for new Vivaldi Accounts:

    @QuHno said in Introducing SMS verification for new Vivaldi Accounts:

    What has the browser to do with the website?

    These are the same people and they never warned about their plans. Yesterday you couldn’t know that they would do this. Now you cannot be sure that tomorrow they will not do something else.

    True, reaching this moment you can rethink the use. But in the meantime, the development of Vivaldi depends on the suggestions and needs of the user, according to the philosophy of this community., more than in any other browser.



  • @LonM said in Introducing SMS verification for new Vivaldi Accounts:

    @Pesala I think most UK landlines can receive SMS messages which are stored in a mailbox, but it's been a long time since I've used that so I don't know how it works any more. You raise a good point.

    Interesting. I would have thought that an internet browser company would have a global viewpoint, not parochial UK only mentality. Too bad. The inability of their personnel to even contemplate someone thinking or working differently than their narrow view destroyed Firefox. Looks like the same thing may be happening here. The announcement even conflates phone with mobile phone!

    FYI, not all potential users of Vivaldi live in the UK nor does everyone need or have a mobile phone. Globally, very few landline phones support SMS. If you don't want users without mobile phones that is your choice but then you should say that up front.



  • @Catweazle said in Introducing SMS verification for new Vivaldi Accounts:

    I believe that Vivaldi is a work in collaboration with the user and for this they are not necessary protests, but constructive suggestions.

    If that was really true then a request for ideas and suggestions would be made before a (probable) non-reversible change or policy was implemented. Springing a major change upon users unannounced is the antithesis of colaboration or sensitivity to user needs.



  • @iAN-CooG said in Introducing SMS verification for new Vivaldi Accounts:

    @Pesala the SMS will be sent via regular mail, give it 3-7 days for delivery. 😉

    Really? To what address? Since the only info requested was a phone number, does Vivaldi have an up to date global reverse phone directory? Even if Vivaldi did have a street address, are they really going to fund international postage rates for online accounts?

    I don't think so.



  • @thomasp said in Introducing SMS verification for new Vivaldi Accounts:

    @Pesala said in Introducing SMS verification for new Vivaldi Accounts:

    How does this work with a landline?

    I don't have a mobile. Have you got a mobile?

    There is a phone call option where the activation code is read out to you.

    I didn't see any "phone call" option - just a simple entry for a phone number and a message that an SMS message will be sent.

    Even if there were such an option, who is going to fund all the international phone calls?



  • The user is angry, get out from below.



  • @ArtKns OMG dude, it's called humour, look up for it.


  • Moderator

    @ArtKns Vivaldi has essentially nothing to do with the UK. Developers are sited mainly in Iceland, Norway and Poland (some Russia). Staff are from everywhere, including Japan. A single staffer, to my knowledge, is from Wales/England.

    The browser does not have a viewpoint. Some mods do. The staff lean "Nordic/European."


  • Ambassador

    @jochen01 A mobile number is not required to gain write access to the forum. It is required to start a Blog or to get a Vivaldi.net email address.

    • Syncing browser data or posting to the Vivaldi Forum: email verification only.
    • Using webmail or publishing blog posts: SMS verification.


  • Seems you're having some growing pains... I don't mind SMS verification but you have bigger problems. You still need to clean up the login, re-logging problems. I've re-logged 3 or 4 times to get to leave a message. Looking forward to using my new browser. I like it, lots! Fast, clean etc. Please allow extensions as my password manager needs a spot in your browser.

    Thanks,
    Dave


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