How we count our users
I would like to make it possible for the user to decide whether to count or not. Because Vivaldi is supposed to be a browser that the user creates according to his preferences, right?
@MattSolo45 In order to survive financially, it is absolutely essential for Vivaldi to be able to count every user, not just most of them. They can't tell potential partners and advertisers, "We know we can only prove two million users, but really there's two and a half million users. Take our word for it. You need to invest in us to the tune of two and a half million pairs of eyeballs."
@Ayespy I understand, but I'd rather have a choice. Every choice has its consequences and I would like to decide for myself whether the choices I have made are right in my eyes.
Pesala last edited by
Given the lengths that Vivaldi go to to inform users and protect their privacy it amazes me that anyone would quibble about being counted as a user. It costs nothing and takes none of your data to sell to advertisers.
It is like complaining about having to show my Freedom Pass every time I get on a train or bus to travel wherever I wish in London at any time of day or night while paying nothing for the journey.
@Pesala That's a choice, too. I prefer to decide for myself whether to take me as a user or just as a person who tests or has this browser to look at the news. I'm not talking about a fixed decision but more fluid depending on the user. Simple browser is my main one ? I would like to point out that I want to be counted among the users. The browser is another one on a computer or other hardware but I want to support it I uncheck it. I have a browser installed but only to see how it develops with my eye ? I do not uncheck etc. I want to decide what I am pinned to because the history of many programs etc. showed how it can be with this assignment.
I really appreciate you guys giving us an insight on everything.
@MattSolo45 You are pinned to nothing. You are not even identified. You are counted as pebbles in a shovel of dirt might be counted when dug up from the stream bed. Counted, the number of pebbles is written on a sheet of paper, and then the pebbles thrown back in the stream. No one knows or cares who you are. They only care, "did I count that pebble already?"
luetage last edited by
@Ayespy Oh wow. Pebbles want to remain in the stream bed, no on asked for the shoveling. A pebble brutally torn out of its community and thrown back in disarray – all this brutality just for the sake of counting. You should be ashamed of yourself for supporting this besetment.
Hello julien_picalausa and Hello Everyone
glad Ayespy stated it in this way. " it is absolutely essential for Vivaldi to be able to count every user ... They can't tell potential partners and advertisers really there's two and a half million users. Take our word for it. "
That is the catch; take our word for it. It is when the user as an asset becomes a liability when unique user id is used. Uniqueness must be protected, guarded, unexplored by potential partners, take our word for it , because we cannot show you. It is private. Co$ting a bundle to vault.
Now take the unique and private parts away. =+ Countable. And we can show it every one. Assets. Not a liability to protect. How many users with pertinent information fields filled-in. pebbles on the shovel.
I am surprised Dr.Flay is not weigh in on this.
So I repeat that it is good to secure the future of Vivaldi. Surrendering the private user facts to create pebbles that are not the same asset, but not nearly as much the liability. I would not mind keeping my unique id; it would impart to vivaldi a responsibility to protect it. It would enable the promoters to fulfill their promises to enhance my individual web experience. Though I will argue that being compartmentalized in that way does not open an individual user to the entire breadth and depth of the web. As not employing use of pop-up blockers and extensions that block webpage content will allow the entire content of the full web experience. The lack of being unique might force a universal experience in opposition to the promoters' desires, all not really what they wanted. I hope they are really good at their jobs; I look forward to a better future web experience. I will run with no blockers to monitor their new creativity and future beauty of the web for how it embraces all of us, not just the individual. What would happen if all promotion to download and trial vivaldi browser are blocked? Do not play a part in promoting use of extensions that block content because of the content; (use of resources, maybe. though the opera/ Vivaldi crowd has never been known to be restricted on resources.), But a open web is a greater goal.
For the greater good we will become pebbles. Better, for more than one reason.
Also I will disagree that it is important to count number of users.
Light user or heavy user? Ten users heavily clicking on the money parts is better than one Thousand users not clicking on the money parts.
Importantly it is the potential of the total number of operations of interaction that generate de$ired habitual progress toward growth for all associates by all users combined. Vivaldi can sell on its confidence of having a future uptick in each users amount of interaction by offering superior, creative, addictive, finest, irreplaceable browser. . .[and community. ]
Stable with support. That is what jon can sell.
avjotj Banned last edited by
you need to know counting
you say "you need to know counting"
Growth trumps count. Growth surpasses count. Growth is more important than count.
potmeklecbohdan last edited by
@i_ri But to know the growth, you need to count at least two times…
Also I will disagree that it is important to count number of users.
Partners/advertisers, the source of Vivaldi's income, do not see it that way. They HAVE to know how many eyeballs they are buying, or they will not buy. And they will not buy more eyeballs than they are getting. End of story.
Yes, Vivaldi counts its users, but I don't understand what this has to do with the lack of privacy. Any page we visit, without using a VPN, knows of us little less than the number we fit in our shoes (ISP, IP, OS, PC model, etc., see Panopticlick), data that we do not know where they end or what business is done with them. This Vivaldi, limited to truncated data for statistical purposes does not, with this I am satisfied and consider that a debate on privacy in Vivaldi is meaningless.
Vivaldi is as private as the search engine we use, if it's Google, well ...
Respectfully and with pleasure I will say we do agree. Julien has made a way possible to make available the essential count. Sold on the basics of sustainability and growth.
okay. count twice and have the same number? only growth kept it from shrinking.
okay. every business desktop in the world gets vivaldi browser, but the business network disallows clicking on ads and money links, vpn. The value of the big user count is diminished. no increase use. Those employees better have downloaded vivaldi at home because it is stable and has support; with the features that make it their reliable utensil to navigate the web. The pertinent fields must be filled-in to count as a pebble.
To be able to say that our users are surf lovers, our users spend an average of two more hours per day than the users of other browsers is better than total number count in circulation. more time with more tabs equals more ads, partners.
growth of use. growth of user count. growth.
Vivaldi does grow use. We keep you online. more tabs. more control. good performance. Stable with support.
They will get more eyeballs than they expect because of growth of use not just by growth of circulation count. because of Stable with support.
Wonder what term that count i$ good for? If jon can anticipate a growing spurt we can hope the term is short or allows the rate to rise with an increase in count. Julien will have the numbers. It is a good choice for vivaldi to modernize the keeping of the user id. Good job Julien.
NSANE last edited by NSANE
If you need another perspective on why active user count is so important to business, watch the Silicon Valley episode "Daily Active Users".
It basically narrates that download counters are useless, you can have 3.000.000 downloads but as low as 50.000 active users, which is a disaster.
With 3M downloads... sure, you can fool a couple investors here and there with that number, but actually savvy ones will care about active users and tell you off. What's more, they can then go an tell other investors "Vivaldi is hiding their real user count", which then would be even more of a disaster for a lot of reasons.
I know it's kind of a tricky scenario, but if you use your head and think about it logically, a daily/weekly, 99% anonymous phone home in exchange for a power user browser is a deal so good it would be stupid not to take it.
Alternatively, if Vivaldi would cost 20-30 dollars, I would switch to Firefox this exact second. Why? Because 20 dollars is a lot of money here, and I can assure you that it's also a lot in half of the world's countries, so they would lose about 70-80% of the current userbase for little gain.
So again, a phone home is an insignificant price to pay, and the alternative is basically, not have a browser.
All this said, the only way that Vivaldi could actually remove the phone home, is to make the usercount so huge it would be irrelevant for investors. So yeah, keep telling your friends and family about Vivaldi! We all benefit from it.