New Standard of Browsing? :-O

  • @LordOfTheNet said in New Standard of Browsing? 😮:

    @luetage said in New Standard of Browsing? 😮:

    @LordOfTheNet Makes no sense, why would an adblocker draw people away from Firefox? Inbuilt adblockers on desktop browsers are somewhat superfluous anyway. On mobile it's another story altogether.

    Also I don't see what's so great about Brave adblocking. Currently they allow first party advertisements and their longtime goal is to build up a system of monetization for content on the internet (which is probably bound to fail because no one uses Brave).

    peeps do not want ads regardless of platform. as for brave their adblocker is still a work in progress. as for drawing away peeps from firefox you can bet firefox will follow suite on blocking adblockers like google is in the process of doing now. so makes perfect sense.

    Though Google backtracks on Chrome modifications that would have crippled ad blockers

  • I would assume that more people use Brave than Vivalid. But that's a guess. I've used it for a while on my mobile. But I didn't really like it.

  • @HealingCross I didn't imply Vivaldi has more users, no idea really. As far as I know both have a user reach far below 1% in the desktop browser market, neither Vivaldi nor Brave matter in the grand scheme. I'm just saying Brave has different ambitions, and to meet these ambitions they have to have significant market share…

  • @npro said in New Standard of Browsing? 😮:


    Well, I think Vivaldi is fun ... more like the old Opera than other browsers, but I find the current Opera sometimes more appealing than Vivaldi for the following reasons:

    It’s clear you haven’t fully explored the capabilities Vivaldi offers, because everything you mentioned Vivaldi does better and of course it does much more than that which is impossible to cover here.

    Hardy har har ... that's not even close to being true. False assessment.

    So let’s break it down as you did already

    seems lighter on resources and a bit more responsive/quick than even Chrome, Firefox, and Vivaldi

    which is subjective, don’t know about your system and how old It is but on my i7 Vivaldi is as fast as Opera, if faster.

    I'm happy for you, but Opera is just snappier and more responsive here.

    best tab preview of any browser - I can check on the tab/page's content simply by hovering over the tab

    not only exists in Vivaldi but comes with smaller and handier previews that don’t block your whole screen, which is the trusted way of Jon’s original Opera (Presto). Apart from that you can have permanent tab thumbnails placed to any monitor side to easily visually distinguish tabs, also an old Opera Presto feature that current Opera does not have.

    Again, Opera's tab preview is far superior to Vivaldi in my opinion. I really like the huge tab preview. It means I don't even have to click on the tab, often.

    full-screen is truly full-screen and allows me access to both open tabs and closed tabs very nicely via Ctrl-M; I can also access Facebook Messenger easily while in full-screen mode by Ctrl-Shift-M.

    Truly full-screen is only Vivaldi. Because only in Vivaldi you can press F8 and bring up a hovering address bar to enter a url. In Opera you can only search. And search only with GOOGLE I thank you. Vivaldi again excels in everything fullscreen because you can hit F4 and have access to the web panel with which you can do anything. F2 brings up not only the list of the open tabs, but also the possibility to enter commands for further actions. You can shuffle through open tabs with the mouse too, which old Opera had but new doesn’t, holding the right mouse and scrolling, brings up the open tabs with previews. You can have of course access to any web panel item by binding a keyboard shortcut of your like to it. Not to speak about spatial nagivation ‘cause one can’t cover all. Not to speak about how you can't show your Bookmarks Bar in current Opera while fullscreen.

    Opera's fullscreen works far better here for me than Vivaldi.

    Additionally you have lots of possibilities that new Opera does not offer, for example:

    • While being in fullscreen (F11) you can hit Ctrl+F2 which additionally shows the address and search bar. Not possible in Opera.

    Such things are very buggy here in Vivaldi.

    • You can hit Ctrl+F11 show that you can see the title of the tab and have access to the Vivaldi menu to do things from there, an option that new Opera does not offer.

    does not tap-out my laptop battery as quickly as other browsers

    AFAIK it's work in progress for Vivaldi, but let's be honest here, no one sane moves around for hours without the charging unit and plugs are almost everywhere, 10 minutes more won't save you.

    It is meaningful to me and is more of a factor than you guesstimate.

    Instant Search (Alt-Space) works terrifically and is a great way to access bookmarks even in full-screen mode

    as already written above, F2 is far superior, F4 brings you full control including bookmarks without leaving fullscreen

    I don't care for the webpanel approach with F4. F2 in Vivaldi is not as visually appealing nor as snappy as the Instant Search in Opera.

    customizable keyboard shortcuts (not quite as good as Vivaldi in this respect, but still very good)

    still very good compared to Chrome perhaps, but not in any way compared to Vivaldi. There's no keyboard shortcut for pinning tab, keyboard shortcut for duplicating tab was only added recently because of a user whining about it. In Vivaldi you can assign a keyboard shortcut for closing other tabs for example (let' say Ctrl+Shift+W to be affine with Ctrl+W). Boom, other tabs are closed instantly.

    I already conceded Vivaldi is more customizable here, but Opera's options are more than adequate for my purposes, typically.

    built-in snapshot (Ctrl-Shift-5) is very nice

    Vivaldi’s built in snapshot gives you far more possibilities, you can assign a keyboard shortcut for it, and it can capture the whole webpage as well. It can’t add emojis if that’s your thing, sure.

    Vivaldi's implementation is no better than Opera's ... and again it is less visually pleasing.

    speed dial is better and snappier than other browsers

    subjective, you can have multiple Speed Dials in Vivaldi and customize it yourself to a much wider extent. In Opera Ctrl-clicking, or Middle-mouse click on Speed Dial folders does not work for example, which does it not better in any way.

    Speed Dial is much in Opera in terms of speed and snappiness. I can save any selected tabs to a Speed Dial folder very quickly ... not so in Vivaldi. I don't want tabs saved all that much to a bookmark folder or to a session. I consider Speed Dial folders easier to access and a more viable option for fast browsing than hunting for a session or a bookmark folder.

    Personal News integration with AI news/categories is innovative and creative and intriguing

    Integrated RSS is in the works for quite some time, until it's ready there are beautiful RSS readers like Zebra RSS and similar. The one in new Opera exists only because old Opera Presto users that have already migrated here have whined about it for months, months and months, as they did for having Bookmarks while the same Opera you see with R3 insisted "Stash" is sufficient and Bookmarks is a thing of the past...As for AI news I can only comment with "..."

    Bottomline, Opera has it and it works very nicely. Vivaldi doesn't have it. You are very snide about Opera for some reason.

    Facebook Messenger in the pinned sidebar is very nice; I like it better than Vivaldi's implementation. Other browsers simply don't have it. (request: Twitter in this sidebar would be heavenly!)

    can’t comment on that as I don’t use social stuff, though Opera gets money from advertising that way, therefore you will get only what Opera wants you to have, while in Vivaldi you can add all those web-based messengers by yourself to the web panel.

    The web panels in Vivaldi suck up lots of memory and the Facebook Messenger webpanel in Vivaldi is just not nearly as elegant as it is in Opera.

    address bar input seems to predict what I am looking for better than other browsers

    suggestions is a search-engine feature and Opera's address bar is far inferior to Vivaldi's in terms of showing history items, bookmarks, number of items etc.

    I cannot disagree with you more on this. Opera knows what I want far better when typing in a few characters than does Vivaldi.

    it is more appealing to the eyes than other browsers. I like the bright wallpapers in Light mode very much.

    … you know you can customize themes and appearance to your like in Vivaldi right?

    Oh, I know ... I've tried lots of things in Vivaldi ... Opera just looks better, still.

    MyFlow with Opera Touch on phone is excellent

    good for you, Vivaldi has Vivaldi Android in the works.

    "In the works" doesn't work for me right now. 🙂 I am on IPhone, too.

    neat little features other browsers do not have like tap on tab to take you to top of page/tap again to take you back to where you were on the page

    that’s a “feature” that new Opera copied from Yandex browser, Vivaldi didn’t need to have it as it was already possible by binding a mouse gesture for it (for example right-click and UP) which is far superior as it works from any place in the webpage and you don’t have to travel your cursor to the top to find the tab.

    Seems like more work to me than clicking on the tab ... to each his own.

    neat little features like mouse gestures that work and don't overwhelm with too many choices

    already in Vivaldi and better, fully customizable as in Opera Presto, not possible in new Opera.

    Vivaldi wins on this count, agreed. I like mouse gestures with the Alt-key in Vivaldi. I miss that in Opera.

    the best tab management of any browser I've found to be able to simply go back and forth between two tabs quickly and easily. I use Ctrl-tab for this.

    Which... shortcut has worked that way in every browser for years. Or Ctrl+Pgup etc. Nothing new, in Vivaldi you can add additional keyboard for that like Alt+1 going left, Alt+2 going right…

    Going back and forth between tabs with a keyboard shortcut is wonky (unpredictable for me with Vivaldi) ... sometimes Ctrl-tab works, sometimes it does not ... it always works in Opera.

    built-in ad-blocking capability (I assume this is more resource efficient than relying on extensions for this)

    which is obsolete by now as many sites penetrated its methods already. Better to use uBlock Origin. Speaking of performance studies have shown that the impact of it is milliseconds which you can not perceive anyway.

    I wonder if Opera knows this. 🙂

    neat little features other browsers do not have like the ability to close a tab with Alt-mouseclick

    please... It's nice! Give it a try!

    neat little features other browsers do not have like the ability to select multiple tabs and then right-click them to copy all their page addresses (URL's)

    Vivaldi already had it from the beginning in the window panel.

    Ah, it's not as nice as Opera ... I don't like having to open panels all the time, either.

    neat little features like the ability to select multiple tabs and then right-click them to save them all to a Speed Dial folder

    In Vivaldi you can save them as a Bookmark folder that can be used in both ways plus as a session, which is not possible in new Opera.

    I discussed this above already.

    One more advantage I see with Opera over some other browsers is the very nice layout for extensions:
    -Under Development
    It has helped me locate one or more extensions in the past more quickly than I would have located them without such a nice breakdown.

    There are switches in Vivaldi which show that, probably Chromium based, nitpicking territory. As for extension keyboard shortcuts I admit I have no idea for what reason one would enable and disable extensions via shortcuts on a daily basis. My extensions stay pinned where they are.

    You are misreading what I am saying completely. Extension keyboard shortcuts are not there to enable/disable an extension. Rather they exist to activate the enabled extension. In Opera, these extension keyboard shortcuts work in full-screen mode. They do not work in full-screen mode in Vivaldi at all.

    Finally, Opera has built-in Cryptocurrency Mining Protection and Malware Blocking
    Other browsers force one to research/search for such protection via extensions. I know Opera has got me covered for this already, so it is one less headache/concern for me. I have enough headaches/concerns, already.

    Malware blocking is provided by Google and exists in all chromium-based browsers and cryptocurrency mining protection is already integrated in uBlock Origin under “Resource abuse”. Besides, if you haven't noticed, cryptocurrency is dead already, it collapsed.

    If you say so, I guess it's so. 😃

    All said, I like your fervor. I was a huge fan of Opera Presto, and I'm hoping Vivaldi grows up, but for now it's just too buggy and sluggy (sluggish) for me. Twitter videos don't work too well in Vivaldi, Find-in-page crashes the browser routinely, page loading is sluggish or hangs too much unpredictably. It can be fun for a little use here and there with turbo nickname shortcut browsing which I always really like in Opera Presto, but it's just not "cuttin' the mustard" enough for me, yet.

  • @luetage said in New Standard of Browsing? 😮:

    @HealingCross I didn't imply Vivaldi has more users, no idea really. As far as I know both have a user reach far below 1% in the desktop browser market, neither Vivaldi nor Brave matter in the grand scheme. I'm just saying Brave has different ambitions, and to meet these ambitions they have to have significant market share…

    That’s true. But both get some publicity on technical sites and are mentioned at browser comparisons. Vivaldi mostly gets some honorable mentions, not always listed with the main competition.
    From reactions at Vivaldi‘s Facebook site, I would guess it’s only a fracture of one percent. I think, that I remember a market share of 0.01 % as shown on But that may also be due of the fact, that most sites identify Vivaldi as Chrome.

    I like Vivaldi, but in the end I‘m sure, if I won‘t stick to Firefox in the end.

  • probaby right. shame brave in not ready for primetime where vivaldi is and has been.

    Yeah, Brave looks like a Chrome clone with a rather obscure business model.
    Although Vivaldi has come a long way, I sometimes run in some minor flaws which makes it necessary, at least for me, to have Firefox installed as well.
    Hope that Vivaldi will soar anyway. Lots of good resonances in the media, unfortunately more for the tech savy or former Opera users.

  • For the record ... Firefox already has a built-in ad blocker, and you can search with sites other than Google in Opera - though both the search bar in speed dial and "Instant search" (which I don't use) are restricted to whatever is the first search site for your locale. In the address bar the default search can be any of the built-in searches for your locale (which is typically half a dozen choices including Bing, DuckDuckGo and Wikipedia among the English language choices). But our Russian users complain that their speed dial search is Yandex and would prefer Google!

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