Stretch tabs to edge of window



  • Hi again everyone! I'm sorry for a harsh title, but I am extremely depressed seeing another great piece of software making this stupid UI mistake. OK, let me put it this way. What's the most often used control / UI element of the browser nowadays? TABS! Right?!! [img]http://i.imgur.com/2T0m9QR.png[/img] <-- [i]these[/i] Tabs are really good for selecting with mouse (or trackpad) cause there are many of them and they are often in no particular order so keyboard can be inefficient (I know there are tidy users out there who keep their tabs under control, but there are also plenty of us tab-havoc people walking around using our browsers) Now, whats the one absolute 100% requirement to achieving comfortable and efficient mouse navigation? The requirement is - you absolutely need to make aiming easy. A great way of doing this - is placing the most used controls against the edge of the screen - so the user only has to aim in one dimension (either vertically or horizontally) instead of two. Yet, SO MANY software suites miss out entirely on this great usability improvement and place COMPLETELY USELESS pixels between the tabs and the edge of the screen. What is this useless-pixels-at-the-top epidemic?? I think there was a topic somewhere around here asking what is preventing me from using Vivaldi as my main browser? Its things like this. Small usability tweaks the lack of which does not allow for a comfortable workflow. Anyways, in the spirit of good old Opera, I hope Vivaldi devs will include an ability to extend the tabs all the way to the edge of the screen as an option in the settings (I'm sure that option was there in old Opera) PS I know I can use native window, but thats not an option cause I'm on a mac at work and I'm locked in the useless-pixels-at-the-top world there PPS Yes, and I know I can tweak the CSS, but screw that! I want my browser to be amazing from the box! [img]http://i.imgur.com/B2X4pWI.png[/img]



  • I actually haven't had any trouble with this.



  • @YemSalat:

    Yet, SO MANY software suites miss out entirely on this great usability improvement and place COMPLETELY USELESS pixels between the tabs and the edge of the screen. What is this useless-pixels-at-the-top epidemic??

    That area is meant to be a draggable area, and also to leave the space needed for the stacked tab placeholder.

    You may don't like it, but your personal opinion is not enough to make it useless or stupid.

    Vivaldi's mission is to please as more tastes as possible, and possibly an option to disable that area will come in the future, as happened with Opium.

    Also take a look to the customizzation thread, there you will find the instructions to disable it.

    As always happen read/search before complain, is a good thing.



  • After using Opera <=12 (pixels-at-the-top) -> Firefox (no pixels-at-the-top ) -> Vivaldi (pixels-at-the-top again) I prefer Firefox UI.



  • @carking1996:

    I actually haven't had any trouble with this.

    Exactly - the thing about usability improvements - you have no idea it could be better unless you used it before.

    Try this experiment - open about 30 tabs and try to slide your mouse across them so the previews show up (for example pretend you are looking for a tab you previously used) - how long did it take you?

    Now try just sliding the mouse against the edge of the screen - way easier ain't it? B)



  • @The_Solutor:

    That area is meant to be a draggable area, and also to leave the space needed for the stacked tab placeholder.

    How often do you drag the browser window during the day? Compare that to how often you switch tabs.
    More often used controls should be easier to handle than controls that are not used often. Simple as that.

    Plus keyboard is a much better fit for window manipulation than the mouse (opposite situation for tabs)

    @The_Solutor:

    You may don't like it, but your personal opinion is not enough to make it useless or stupid.

    Its not my personal opinion, its a fact - Fitt's Law

    @The_Solutor:

    Also take a look to the customizzation thread, there you will find the instructions to disable it.
    As always happen read/search before complain, is a good thing.

    Perhaps you should follow your own advice and read more carefully what I already said in the first post?
    Here's a pick:

    @YemSalat:

    PPS Yes, and I know I can tweak the CSS, but screw that! I want my browser to be amazing from the box!


  • Moderator

    No, please not another thread about this with Fitt's law quotations.

    Please stop coming with assumption of what's good or bad. What's good is option, what one like may not what another likes. Vivaldi is Opera 12 evolution so that's why the space at the top, Jón probably likes it. Opera 12 had an option to disable it too so it'll be available for Vivaldi, but not yet. Either wait for the option or make the changes as we already explained in the customisation thread.

    And I am constantly resizing my browser window, and I rarely use my pointer to change tabs.



  • @YemSalat:

    @The_Solutor:

    That area is meant to be a draggable area, and also to leave the space needed for the stacked tab placeholder.

    How often do you drag the browser window during the day?

    Personally a lot, especially since the snap function was introduced in windows (and perfected in win 10).

    Compare that to how often you switch tabs.

    I switch the tabs a lot, and surely isn't a 2 pixel space than lead me miss them.

    More often used controls should be easier to handle than controls that are not used often. Simple as that.

    Indeed the tabs are way larger than such tiny area

    Plus keyboard is a much better fit for window manipulation than the mouse (opposite situation for tabs)

    Again personal preference. Agreeing or not wit you is irrelevant, since we are just two users over maybe 400/500k (just to mention the vivaldi users alone)

    Its not my personal opinion, its a fact - Fitt's Law

    No please, another post about that "law".

    I'm started to think that that law was invented by some Vivaldi hater.

    I'm using computers since the AD 1982, I work with them since the end of last millenium and never heard anything about it, before my subscription here

    Likely that means something



  • @An_dz:

    No, please not another thread about this with Fitt's law quotations.

    Please stop coming with assumption of what's good or bad. What's good is option, what one like may not what another likes. Vivaldi is Opera 12 evolution so that's why the space at the top, Jón probably likes it. Opera 12 had an option to disable it too so it'll be available for Vivaldi, but not yet. Either wait for the option or make the changes as we already explained in the customisation thread.

    And I am constantly resizing my browser window, and I rarely use my pointer to change tabs.

    I never quoted Fitts law, read carefully.

    Please stop coming with your 'please stop coming..' comments. They suck and bring zero value to the conversation.

    What I did with my post - stated my opinion, stated the facts, requested an option in the future version of the browser.

    What you did - came around and said "stop talking..", well I'm not going to, like it or not :P



  • @The_Solutor:

    I'm using computers since the AD 1982, I work with them since the end of last millenium and never heard anything about it, before my subscription here

    Likely that means something

    That means you've been less efficient than you could have been for more than 20 years.

    You're missing the point mate. (btw, use WIN key + arrow keys to snap windows quickly)

    @An_dz:

    And I am constantly resizing my browser window, and I rarely use my pointer to change tabs.

    WAIT! I think there is some misunderstanding here.

    I am talking only with regards to a fullscreen browser. You are not resizing that from the top, are you?
    When its in a window - there definitely should be some chrome on top of the window so it can be dragged. But in full-screen mode that chrome makes very little sense.


  • Moderator

    In case anyone wondered, both of you are "wrong" and I am "right."

    Tabs on top or bottom is "stupid," you see, because I prefer them on the side, which makes the complained-of pixels at the top completely irrelevant to my browsing experience and therefore to the browsing experience of everyone. Because 16:9 monitors, which are the only valid monitors, and the reason why I have tabs on side (to say nothing of keeping email on the other side, where I can always see it).

    And "Fitt's Law" is not a law at all, but rather a proposition that some people studying ergonomics find useful (but not dispositive). As it is related to the interaction of humans with devices, it is not actually capable of being a "law" as by definition there can be no laws concerning human behavior - only hypotheses and theories, none of which are totally falsifiable.

    Therefore, everyone is wrong, and I am right, etc., etc., etc.

    OR, how about this? How about each of us politely explains our own preferences and the reasons for them, without trying to bludgeon another user into submission to "win" the argument? Would that be unacceptably hard?

    As it happens, Vivaldi is all about user choice, as Opera of old was, and I would be stunned if the OPTION to remove those few pixels did not make it into an official option or into one of the likely hundreds of skins that are going to be constructed in time by both the company and by a multitude of users.



  • @YemSalat:

    That means you've been less efficient than you could have been for more than 20 years.

    No, means that my brain, thanks God, my brain is still an analog device meant to operate on an analog world, so I don't need stupid rules to understand how make my work in the most efficient way. (especially the ones wrongly called rules when they aren't)

    Be sure that efficiency's engine is the laziness, not a random rule heard somewhere. And I'm lazy.

    You're missing the point mate. (btw, use WIN key + arrow keys to snap windows quickly)

    The point is that you use what you like in the way you like, and do it too.

    The difference is that, when I don't agree with a developer decision, I'm used to ask politely for a change/addition.

    Likely something about the good manners should be read before any "law" about ergonomics



  • @Ayespy:

    In case anyone wondered, both of you are "wrong" and I am "right."

    Tabs on top or bottom is "stupid," you see, because I prefer them on the side, which makes the complained-of pixels at the top completely irrelevant to my browsing experience and therefore to the browsing experience of everyone. Because 16:9 monitors, which are the only valid monitors, and the reason why I have tabs on side (to say nothing of keeping email on the other side, where I can always see it).

    Oh god.. Please people, I am not trying to make someone feel bad.

    1. I already said that tabs can be top/bottom/side of screen - so your style of comment is a total miss.
      I never said my way is THE way.

    2)Stop hanging up on the Fitts Law, yes it not an actual "Law" no one is gonna send you to jail, etc, etc.
    I never said that it proves anything, all I am saying - it is easier to aim in one dimension then in two, and I used 'Fitts Law' as a label for this idea. I mean it just IS easier to aim with a mouse in just ONE dimension. It is not a law, its a fact of life.

    1. How about this - everyone stops telling other people what they should do? I have made my statement, made a feature request and that's it. Why the need to come around and 'shut me up' ? You bring nothing useful with those kinds of comments.

    PS
    Stop taking everything as a personal insult, I heard that helps with most things.



  • @The_Solutor:

    Be sure that efficiency's engine is the laziness, not a random rule heard somewhere. And I'm lazy..

    Whatever.
    I hope you won't deny that efficiency is actually a measurable thing, so one thing can be more/less efficient than the other.

    Another thing about efficient workflows - once you got it - you're totally hooked! And being unable to get to that level of efficiency for whatever reasons is a major annoyance.



  • @YemSalat:

    I'm sorry for a harsh title, but I am extremely depressed seeing another great piece of software making this stupid UI mistake.

    You got the title wrong anyway — it should have been “Another User's Stupidity.”

    I also like to have my tabs at the top of the window because I always maximise Opera, and I don't need to drag the window title bar. However, I understand that not everyone works like this, and that the option to configure it will come sooner or later.

    So quit whining about trivial things in a Technical Preview, and don't assume that own personal preference is the only right way to design the User Interface.

    If you want people to pay attention, state your feature request politely.



  • @YemSalat:

    I hope you won't deny that efficiency is actually a measurable thing, so one thing can be more/less efficient than the other.

    Surely it's measurable.

    It's the units of measurement, that changes from user to user, and from situation to situation.

    A mouse connected or a trackpoint instead of a trackpad or two mouse buttons instead of three, can already make an huge difference on UI priorities, even when the user is the same.



  • @Pesala:

    @YemSalat:

    I'm sorry for a harsh title, but I am extremely depressed seeing another great piece of software making this stupid UI mistake.

    You got the title wrong anyway — it should have been “Another User's Stupidity.”

    I also like to have my tabs at the top of the window because I always maximise Opera, and I don't need to drag the window title bar. However, I understand that not everyone works like this, and that the option to configure it will come sooner or later.

    You should stop taking everything as a personal insult. I never had a conversation with you before, yet you start it off by calling me stupid in the first line, well done.

    This is not a ticket tracker. Its a forum, and I'm not breaking any of its rules. I'm passionate about my browser and I really want it to be as good as it can be in terms of UX.
    So please, stop policing my style of speech, don't you have better things to do?



  • @The_Solutor:

    Surely it's measurable.

    It's the units of measurement, that changes from user to user, and from situation to situation.

    A mouse connected or a trackpoint instead of a trackpad or two mouse buttons instead of three, can already make an huge difference on UI priorities, even when the user is the same.

    Sure thing, but its irrelevant to what I am talking about in the original post.



  • Don't worry, YemSalat, there will be a setting for disabling top spacing. I'm using it like you do, too. You can actually achieve this already with two lines of CSS, but I'll make sure this setting gets added rather sooner than later. ;)



  • Thanks heaps! Appreciate it :)


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