Privacy is not just a personal matter



  • @jon: I remember paying for Opera in the past. I think initially it was paid, then they experimented with a free version that was ad supported (you saw ads on the top) and you could remove them by paying the upgrade and then finally it became completely free.

    I’m not saying Vivaldi should be paid, but I do believe a special upgraded version that is entirely optional for powers users with some extra features&services would absolutely work as a paid model.

    The reason is that some people might upgrade just to support Vivaldi and others because having a paid browser would be just cool over another freemium model.



  • @terere: With the number of free browsers available, I'm not convinced at all that users would find it "just cool" to have a paid model. Any willing to pay would most likely be be just a small minority.


  • Vivaldi Ambassador

    @NetGain said in Privacy is not just a personal matter:

    @terere: With the number of free browsers available, I'm not convinced at all that users would find it "just cool" to have a paid model. Any willing to pay would most likely be be just a small minority.

    I only know paid browsers for MacOS (OmniWeb, Fake, iCab), all others are Freeware or OSS.
    I only imagine the acceptance of a paid browser by companies for having specific functions, but not for a normal user.



  • Hey @jon

    I really enjoy Vivaldi and the way you and the team takes privacy seriously. However I ask myself why can't you create a function so Vivaldi itself does not phone home every 24 hours as you state in your privacy policy?

    It's kind of hard to preach privacy and say that all the companies are bad, but on the other hand you also collect data and it's not even possible to opt-out.

    I would love to know if you are planning such a function to be available in the near future.


  • Moderator

    @Gixxa said in Privacy is not just a personal matter:

    why can't you create a function so Vivaldi itself does not phone home every 24 hours

    You do not want Vivaldi to know how many of their browsers are installed? No anonymous statistics?
    Or what is your concern?


  • Vivaldi Ambassador

    @Gixxa said in Privacy is not just a personal matter:

    Hey @jon

    I really enjoy Vivaldi and the way you and the team takes privacy seriously. However I ask myself why can't you create a function so Vivaldi itself does not phone home every 24 hours as you state in your privacy policy?

    It's kind of hard to preach privacy and say that all the companies are bad, but on the other hand you also collect data and it's not even possible to opt-out.

    I would love to know if you are planning such a function to be available in the near future.

    Collecting how many people use Vivaldi in which country, is not violating private data, it is anonymous statistics.

    Vivaldi do nothing else, less than other browers



  • @Gwen-Dragon

    As I said I would welcome a option to opt-out even better let it be an opt-in, that could be asked for in the initial setup after starting the first time. If someone wants to share the info with Vivaldi great, if not let them decline it.

    @Catweazle

    Well it's a bit more that just country and how many people use it. As it says in the privacy policy it's:

    • (user) ID
    • [bowser] version
    • cpu architecture
    • screen resolution
    • time since last message
    • (anonymized) ip

    And yes technically it's not private data (except the ip and maybe the user id as it is unique) but it still has a funny taste when you preach water but drink wine at the end of the day i.e. not let the users decide if they want to share the information with Vivaldi.

    I get why Vivaldi wants the stats as it's a good metric for Vivaldi and partners. Just let people decide if they want to be part of the stats.


  • Moderator

    @Gixxa Hiding from Vivaldi how many installs are in use, cuts into Vivaldi's income and makes it harder for the company to survive - as it is still operating at a loss. There is no way for Vivaldi to charge its advertising partners adequate amounts for placement if the usage stats are artificially low.

    Also, if Vivaldi gets no feedback on what platforms it's running on, devs don't know what to build for.

    Again, the data collected is completely anonymous and contains nothing concerning usage patterns, sites visited, networks used, or anything that is capable of touching your privacy. Vivaldi does not know who you are, where you are, or what you are doing. The info is no more informative than colored dots on a lo-res map of the globe. What Vivaldi can tell is, "we have a lot of users on newer equipment in Japan. Most of them use Windows."


  • Vivaldi Ambassador

    @Gixxa said in Privacy is not just a personal matter:

    @Gwen-Dragon

    As I said I would welcome a option to opt-out even better let it be an opt-in, that could be asked for in the initial setup after starting the first time. If someone wants to share the info with Vivaldi great, if not let them decline it.

    @Catweazle

    Well it's a bit more that just country and how many people use it. As it says in the privacy policy it's:

    • (user) ID
    • [bowser] version
    • cpu architecture
    • screen resolution
    • time since last message
    • (anonymized) ip

    And yes technically it's not private data (except the ip and maybe the user id as it is unique) but it still has a funny taste when you preach water but drink wine at the end of the day i.e. not let the users decide if they want to share the information with Vivaldi.

    I get why Vivaldi wants the stats as it's a good metric for Vivaldi and partners. Just let people decide if they want to be part of the stats.

    Vivaldi store the last numbers of the IP that especifics only the country.



  • I wish I could take this more seriously.
    When will Vivaldi add an opt out button for their own tracking? They assign every browser install a unique ID and then connect to servers with it. That's the entire basis for user tracking, regardless of what they say they will or won't do with the info.
    I want to see Vivaldi do well, but I can't listen to them extol user privacy for the umpteenth time while knowing 'oh, Bluestacks Lucky Patcher Kodi and our browser phones home and no you can't make it stop' When they are ready to cut this stuff out and I see a browser build that connects only to the sites I'm visiting--nothing behind the scenes (at least without a reason and can be toggled) then I will gladly consider what they have to say.


  • Moderator

    @bilotola Vivaldi cannot make income and survive if it does not sell advertising and search placement space.

    It cannot sell this access to eyeballs if it does not quantify its usership. The ONLY way to accurately quantify usership is by the verifiable number of unique IDs of the browser in use.

    Your proposal is that Vivaldi be unable to quantify its usership = it cannot sell advertising placement = it will have to shut its doors.

    Is that your aim?



  • Companies before used to focus on customer satisfaction or quality of service. Now all they care about is money.


  • Banned

    @terere said in Privacy is not just a personal matter:

    @jon: I remember paying for Opera in the past. I think initially it was paid, then they experimented with a free version that was ad supported (you saw ads on the top) and you could remove them by paying the upgrade and then finally it became completely free.

    I’m not saying Vivaldi should be paid, but I do believe a special upgraded version that is entirely optional for powers users with some extra features&services would absolutely work as a paid model.

    The reason is that some people might upgrade just to support Vivaldi and others because having a paid browser would be just cool over another freemium model.

    i've never seen a paid version of opera.

    @lincolntan36 said in Privacy is not just a personal matter:

    Companies before used to focus on customer satisfaction or quality of service. Now all they care about is money.

    you got that right. go to a store and it's difficult to get help.


  • Moderator

    @MrGrimm said in Privacy is not just a personal matter:

    i've never seen a paid version of opera

    Opera was a paid software up to version 5.0. Then they introduced in-browser ads for those who didn't want to pay for it. The ads were eventually removed in version 8.5 (more history). I personally started using Opera shortly before they removed the ads.


  • Vivaldi Ambassador

    There are still browsers that are not free, for example
    Zetakey Browser - US$ 149 per device



  • @jonmc
    I am a previous user of Opera since Version 2 (!), and still a user though less frequently, since I have been leaning toward Vivaldi more and more in recent months as refinements and improvements have been implemented. I noted with interest that Opera had been purchased by a Chinese company some time ago. I have noticed your comments about leaving Opera due to policy and philosophical changes and also references concerning the use of data that may also impact security and privacy.
    Can you comment specifically and objectively on what these concerns are, or refer us to a previous essay or some article for the benefit of those wishing to understand them? I am not implying that Opera be disparaged in any way - just that an objective and/or comparative review of any concerns that people should be interested in.
    Thanks,
    Robert


 

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