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Tab Groups

  • There are couple of interesting extensions:

    • Sync Tab Groups is very similar to old Firefox's Tab Groups, but it has critical bugs (lose tabs in groups) and it's not maintained for more than 6 months and there is no sign author will continue working on it.
    • Smart Sessions isn't as convenient and close to Tab Groups as Sync Tab Groups, but it makes Sessions dynamic: you don't have to manually save Sessions anymore. Each open Session is still in separate browser Window, but any change to open tabs in that Window is immediately saved, so you won't lose anything if you just close that Window at any moment. Opening new Window with some Session is also a bit more convenient. (NB: Actually "Session" used by this extension isn't same as Vivaldi "Session", they're separate, but work very similar.)

  • @powerman from this description, Smart Sessions seems to be very close to my proposal of "live sessions" above (or "Activities" as @josephj11 mentioned).

    But being an extension, I guess it can't do as good work as browser itself could do.
    I wonder if restored tabs in a smart session are all loaded active, causing network traffic spike and slowdown to process all the pages...
    (Haven't tried it myself - I'm hesitant to let a Chrome extension not familiar with tab stacks to handle my tabs)

  • @killy-mxi I'm sorry, looks like I wrote this too early - was too happy to find at least something. It turns out there are also issues with pinned tabs, and with restore previously opened windows on browser restart. I've reported these issues, and author previously fixed issues fast enough, but I'm unsure is he'll like to spend time fixing Vivaldi-specific issues. So, if these issues will be fixed I'll give it one more chance, but for now it's unusable. šŸ˜ž

  • @brucetm For what's missing in Tabs Outliner (w.r.t. TabGroups Manager), see my comparison. I won't adopt this add-on as of now due to these deficiencies (my situation was originally described in this thread but force-moved to another thread).

    See luckz's comment on the difficult choice many users are facing. See also TGM's current maintainer's workflow.

    @Killy-MXI I like the idea of live sessions very much!

    Update: Today I also managed to solve the problem of inability to move multiple tabs across groups at once.

  • @alreadydone thanks for the pointers to other discussions about these issues, interesting. To be clear about Tabs Outliner vs any other add-on: I was not meaning to present that add-on as a solution. It's poorly supported, slow to develop, and has a terrible UI. My intended point was just this: it handles tens of thousands of tabs and allows us to merge the concepts of history, bookmarks, tabs and sessions. Such modality is one useful reference when designing improvements to the rudimentary native tab management within Vivaldi's side panel.

  • @phant0m I'd like to see a toolbar button for saving a session.

  • I've never had anywhere near 50 tabs open at once, so it could be that I just don't "get it." But why not just open multiple instances of Vivaldi at the same time? That is, have several separate windows open simultaneously, each having related tabs? Ctrl-tab to switch tabs, alt+tab to switch windows. Quick 'n' easy. This way you create your own "groups."

  • @fuller1754 For me, that is essentially what I am doing.
    But the problem, without using any addons, is that you lose track of all tabs if you close one of these windows.
    For me, the Smart Sessions addon mentioned above might actually be good enough since it keeps track of which tabs are open in each particular window that I have told it to actively track.

    I also like that Smart Sessions lets you name each window (in its menu, not somewhere on the actual window unfortunately). I like keeping one area of interest isolated in its own window. Much more tidy and it's easy to switch your attention between the tasks at hand for the moment.

    If this was completely integrated and a part of Vivaldi, it would be perfect. šŸ™‚

  • - Ambassador -

    @fuller1754 I seldom have more than five tabs open although I have two windows, one on each monitor.

    Nevertheless, approximately 14% of Users open more than 100 tabs, and 32% of users open more than 50 tabs.

    The survey is too small to be reliable, but the results are surprising.

  • @powerman

    I agree. Tab Groups is the best extension ever (maybe apart from Tab Mix Plus).

    I simply do not understand why nobody tries to get all the pre-Quantum users on board?

  • The idea I had in mind: "live sessions"

    ^^^ This!

    The concept is quite simple: Window IS a session. Let me name it. Auto save it. Show the name in a window title ( as a prefix ). Let me open and close those windows at will, restoring all the tabs and name and all the state. Sync.

    The start page is a nice concept. But who cares about single pages? These can be typed quickly enough. Put sessions there, not single websites. Now we're talking.

    Use case:

    • Work for several clients / projects (e.g. think freelancing).
    • Doing some research, managing some services.
    • Lots of tabs in different contexts.
    • Lots of switching.
    • Sometimes there is a need to have one project open, sometimes a few. Also personal stuff.
    • There are short projects, and long projects (favorites? sort by last used?)

    I might have 10 windows / projects open. I might want to close 7. But i might need 2 of them open again today. I want it just work, without thinking, like a radio. I press the button and it starts to play the thing where i have left it. Simple.

    There is opportunity here - all the tech seems to be in place, but no one is doing it right for some reason. Go for it.

    p.s. people who have 5 tabs open trying to understand the needs of those that have 500 is somewhat similar of people without kids trying to understand the needs of those that have 5. Its not that easy to grasp without experiencing šŸ˜ƒ

  • Since my initial post, there is one more feature to consider in the development builds:

    Persons - it seems to be the feature straight from Chrome. (I'm not sure about the details since I'm not using Chrome, but I think it had the user profiles for a long time.)

    My main concern about Persons feature is that it makes too much separation between profiles to meet the live sessions use case. Browser settings and extensions is not something I want to be bothered to maintain for each instance.
    So it only suits it's name - let different people use the same browser if for some reason they use the same OS account.
    Differently colored window headers will be a handy thing to borrow though (having the rest of theme colors different will be too much of nuisance).

    all the tech seems to be in place, but no one is doing it right for some reason

    It's even more true now.

  • @powerman I loved Tab Groups. I agree with your analysis of the existing features being much less useful. BTW, tabs in inactive tab groups can be put to sleep automatically, too.

  • @ootada Very nice idea. You've moved the idea of a tab group to the level of a window. Interesting. The only issue I can see is with pinned tabs. Should there be a category of pinned tab that appears in all windows and others that come and go with the window?

  • @rstewart Tab Groups - and all its re-implementations - assume pinned tabs are common across all groups. But FF doesn't have Web Panels, which largely replace the original pinned tab functionality.

    So far I'm making do with Tab Session Manager, but I have to say that FF with Simple Tab Groups is singing a lovely song.

  • I agree that tab groups would be a very nice feature. I would like it.

    As many people say, currently the closest existing feature is tab stacking. I also think that the existing tab stacking feature can be evolved into tab groups.

    I think that the closest analogue to the proposed tab groups is Bookmarks. If the tabs are organized and presented as bookmarks are organized and presented, then a "tab group" corresponds to a "folder" in Bookmarks: You would be able to expand and collapse a tab group.

    After all, a tab is a bookmark, isn't it? I mean, people who constantly keep a lot of tabs (unconsciously) use them as (a kind of) bookmarks.

    It would also be a representation of the often-asked "tree-style tabs", where a node of the tree corresponds to the tab group and to the bookmark folder.

    So, if the tree-style tabs is implemented without losing the capabilities (preview, tiling, etc.) of the current tab-stacking feature, that'd be (presumably) what we all want.

    Or another way may be to manage the tab groups as Finder (Mac) or File Explorer (Windows) does the folders. In this case, when you double click on a tab group, all the current tabs would be hidden and replaced with the tabs contained in the group, and when you close the group, the tabs in the group would get hidden and the previous tabs would be restored.

  • @ryofurue makes some good points.

    I think History, Bookmarks, Active Tabs and Suspended Tabs and Pinned Tabs are legacy distinctions that no longer make as much sense as they used to.

    I would be happy to see them blended to make it easier to work quickly, and understand that everything I work on is saved/captured. Manually saving and annotating something (Bookmarks), hunting down what I forgot to manually save (History), manually suspending tabs I'm not actively using: all of these processes could so easily be managed automatically by the browser. I would prefer not to have to decide which tabs are bookmarks, which are history, which are active, which are inactive.

    I would prefer to have history recorded as a tree rather than a one-dimensional time stream. It's sometimes useful to see a time stream, but many times it's most useful for me to see the snapshot of my tree from last week. Because it's history in the work context. Perhaps in that tree view there would need to be a button on each entry to tag it ("bookmark") and I could then have a filtered view if needed.

    It would be so useful if a Tabs Outliner style tree, and a daily snapshot history model, were combined. So I could page back and forth through each day's working set to find what I need. In addition to traditional time-filtered history search.

  • @iAN-CooG The goal is to have the technology work around you - not to have you work around the technology. The browser knows quite well when the last time that tab was focused on was. You on the other hand don't necessarily know exactly when you'll be back to that particular one when you're working on something. Why can't it simply hibernate tabs not currently in use unless you've flagged it to stay loaded? Why should a bookmark look any different than a tab? The function of both is to remember a place you want to come back to. Why manually require someone to bookmark something, then remember where it is to later click through menus to pull back up when they want it? Why not allow groups of tags - named groups - (rather like a named folder for a bookmark) and you can simply click the tab when you want it?
    Tab hoarders aren't any different than bookmark hoarders except they're trying to be more efficient with the process and waste less time using the technology and more time getting done whatever it is they're working on. The TabGroup Manager for Firefox was awesome back before the author dropped off the grid. Today without it we get things like my coworker who has 20 browser windows on his taskbar, each window being a group of tabs on a particular topic. We need to build software that works the way people work - not software we have to learn to use because it's an interruption and unnatural part of the workflow.

  • @gibbins said in Tab Groups:

    We need to build software

    Good, let us know when you're done with that. For now what we have is problematic for memory usage. Bookmarks don't waste memory, opened tabs do.

  • @gibbins said in Tab Groups:

    The TabGroup Manager for Firefox was awesome back before the author dropped off the grid.

    Actually Firefox nowadays have https://addons.mozilla.org/ru/firefox/addon/simple-tab-groups/ which is very similar to that old add-on. This was the main reason for me to switch back from Vivaldi to Firefox several months ago. I still like Vivaldi and hope to continue using it once again if/when it'll have similar add-on.

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