Search engines: Time to take a stand

Overcast

StartPage was sold to a pay-per-click behavioral ad company called System1!
It should be removed from the list.

Read this:
http://techrights.org/2019/10/16/startpage-is-surveillance/
https://restoreprivacy.com/startpage-system1-privacy-one-group/

Catweazle

@Overcast , not only Startpage was sold to System1, also the Waterfox Browser. It may interest some who use it as a second browser.

https://alternativeto.net/news/2020/2/waterfox-open-source-web-browser-sold-to-system1-ad-company-that-also-bought-startpage/

prascal

@mossman: Yes, it might be an old thread but it's an actual topic. more then ever bevor.. I think a user-friendly Interface of a search engine is beside the search algorithm it self a very important thing, to get attraction and build up a community around them which is not using the alternative search only from time to time but sticks with it and feel comfortable.

Catweazle

@prascal , and more current than ever, since Google and others are changing the procedures to subtract privacy to the network, eliminating extensions of stores. that can guarantee it, especially on Android (Pi-Hole, standalone adblockers and others).

Google will even close its store later this year, starting from not admitting new extensions, to remove it completely in 2022. That is, or Vivaldi has until then its own appstore or there are no extensions available directly.

https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/01/15/google-will-end-support-for-chrome-web-store-apps-starting-this-year/

prascal

Although it is an old threat, the discussion about alternative search engines is probably far from over.
I used to use Google Search in the past, but I didn't have as many problems to say goodbye to Google - at least in the field of web search. Maybe this is because the Google hype in the post millennium years left me somewhat cold. Also with Facebook I never got too warm. I always found it more annoying than helpful and already in 2008 I left the Zuckerberg Empire...

What I find annoying about Google, apart from data theft, tracking and data trade and -exchange (corporate surveillance), is the arrogant appearance of the company. Remember Eric Smith ((Google CEO, Executive Chairman, Advisor of the Founders from 2007 until 2011 respectively 2017), who always stood out with his blatant remarks and made no bones about the fact that he doesn't give a damn about any accusations of tax evasion and other illegal activities at Google. Also regarding privacy, the good man didn't have much ear for the general public and every time things got rough, Google sent an armada of lawyers to straighten things out. An incredible level of decadence and arrogance that was and still is practiced in this company. It is therefore obscure to me that the reputation of Google is still intact. Perhaps it's because of the incredible dominating role that the company plays. Information is power and this has been abused and used against others for a long time!

The incredible and untouchable market position is frightening some people in the online marketing business. To be or not to be, the one who doesn't keep track will go under the guillotine. Everyone bends under the pressure of the giant. You can see this very clearly in the SEO industry. All the lackeys of the Google algorithm screaming at every change notice and while they are shitting their pants, they are squelching their heads how to keep their place on the list in position.
This whole freaky circus is a big laugh.

Privacy is a big problem and most importantly we are shoving all our data free of charge and without any additional charges into the ass of the most decadent new rich upper class from Silicon Valley, which has shown very clearly in the past years that they are not worth a penny.

Eric Smith:
https://www.forbes.com/profile/eric-schmidt/#3d3e6cfc138e

That is why it is so important to use alternative search engines. To drain at least part of the ceaselessly gushing well... I'm not interested in breaking it down. Google didn't just create bad things. But I think a lot of things were made in secret and without informing the users (with good reasons). We are indirectly guilty as well, because we were naive for too long and were happy to use all the great Google tools. I feel sorry for all the small and medium sized companies that got involved with Google, using since decades their services and tools and are now in a very uncomfortable and unbalanced dependent relationship with the giant. Industrial espionage? ... Even that could be solved and stopped. If the only wanted to.

I've been using startpage for a "long" time, and I don't think Qwant is as bad as everyone says. Qwant comes into play mainly in my image search. The important thing is to set preferences and then copy the link provided and paste it into the browser preferences. Sure, without a personalized interface, these search engines are half the fun. And VIVALDI contributes a lot to the comfort of using alternative search engines and thus becomes an accomplice in the conspiracy against Google :). Really great!
Unfortunately I can't do anything with DuckDuckgo. They have a great blog but that's all they have :).
Here is a recommendation of mine that hasn't been listed anywhere yet. This search engine is recommended for advanced users. One must make the correct pre-settings and it needs a little patience until the search runs correctly.

SEARX SEARCH ENGINE
List of public Searx instances: https://searx.space/
Search engine: https://a.searx.space/
https://search.privacytools.io (just a searx search engine integration on privacytools.io)
Please check out the preference section. there is a lot to preset and it can be quite amazing to do so... Have fun Folks

prascal

This post is deleted!

prascal

@Catweazle I don't care about it... Then finally all the voices of the users who claim that the large browser extension offer of Chrome is the reason why they are still using Chrome will fall silent...
If you look at the Google Web Store and see the range of extensions (I've been doing that since I started using VIVALDI. As former Opera and Firefox user i been never there before) you'll quickly realise that ¾ of all extensions should be scrapped. So much rubbish is there available.
We will see with what excuses those guys coming up why to stick with Chrome if all the rubbish is gone ...

prascal

@Catweazle https://vivaldi.com/blog/spyware-browser-extensions/
I am sure you have seen that...

Catweazle

@prascal said in Search engines: Time to take a stand:

@Catweazle https://vivaldi.com/blog/spyware-browser-extensions/
I am sure you have seen that...

Naturally I have seen it and also commented. I have always looked three times before installing an extension, or in general any software. I always give preference to the OSS, or that at least have a recognized author or company.
But this does not remove the problem of users depending on the store to install their preferred extensions and not the app packages, which Google will offer for Chrome or ChromeOS.
Google's reasons are clear, everyone should use Chrome.
Naturally it is possible to install extensions from GitHub, Sourceforge and others, where they usually are, if they are OSS, but it requires some steps that require some knowledge. more than just press an "Install" button, which can make many users give up having a browser that does not have this facility, going to FF or Opera if they still have their own store.
Even on Android I have an alternative with F-Droid and others, but the Chrome Store has no valid alternatives or with a minimum of confidence.

Crimsonshade

I note that Google's Announcement specifically mentions Chrome Apps, not Extensions. There is actually a distinction between the two. Extensions are designed to interact with the websites being viewed or enhance the functionality of the browser itself; and inherently depend on functionality within the browser or on the content of the websites they interact with. Apps, however, are Standalone. They may take advantage of specific Browser features, but they work independently of the Browser itself.

An example of this is Authy: When installed to Chrome, it is listed as both an Extension AND a Chrome App. The Chrome App provides Authy's key functionality, which is to allow generation of 2-Factor Authentication Keys. It is possible to run Authy through a shortcut without opening Chrome itself; and its functionality does not depend on any specific website, even though the keys may only be useful on one particular site or service. The Extension merely adds the button for the App to the browser.

As evidence of the distinction, I refer to Google's own Developer Documentation: https://developer.chrome.com/webstore/apps_vs_extensions

Catweazle

@Crimsonshade , however, I think that for Vivaldi in the long run it is not good to depend on a repository of the competition, precisely Chrome. Sooner or later there will be no choice but to create a own repository, as do other browsers, at least with the most essential. There are many FOSS extensions that can be added without major problems.

Crimsonshade

@Catweazle Indeed. One should never put their fate in the hands of those who don't have your interests to heart.

addermc

DDG Does store search's, "anonymously" (of course) also founder Gabriel Weinberg behind site"Names Database" that collected real names And address of it's users. And Qwant largest owner is Axel Springer company owned by tabloids like Bild-Zeitung. So I'm stuck using bing search, who Also apply cookies and stores info on you. So, still think these engines are"Secure and Private?"

Catweazle

@addermc , for this reason I have finally chosen Startpage and SearX, apart from the specific ones, such as Wikipedia

stardepp

@Catweazle Do you know how to add the search engine Searx to the Vivaldi search?

Steffie

@stardepp https://quhno.vivaldi.net/2017/10/20/how-to-add-search-engines-that-use-post-to-vivaldi/

Steffie

@Overcast Apparently it is now deemed ok again.

https://blog.privacytools.io/relisting-startpage/

stardepp

@Steffie Thank you, but this is far too complicated for me.

Steffie

@stardepp Then try this in your Search Settings - change the country to suit you, change the Ninja Instance to another if you prefer. This will only give you GET results not POST - there's a parallel recent thread canvassing this issue more.

https://searx.ninja/?q=%s&category_general=on&time_range=&language=en-AU

or just more generally

https://searx.ninja/?q=%s

Bug Report VB-68138
        Summary: Searx POST unavailable/defective from Search Field.
            Key: VB-68138
        Project: Vivaldi Browser

    Environment: Vivaldi version: 3.1.1929.3
Operating System: Linux x86.64
Device model:
User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/537.36 >>(KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/83.0.4103.75 Safari/537.36 Vivaldi/3.1.1929.3

Searx POST unavailable/defective from Search Field.

Steps to reproduce:
All my steps:

https://forum.vivaldi.net/topic/47193/startpage-and-vivaldi-bring-more-privacy-to-your-search/51

https://forum.vivaldi.net/topic/47193/startpage-and-vivaldi-bring-more-privacy-to-your-search/56

https://forum.vivaldi.net/topic/47193/startpage-and-vivaldi-bring-more-privacy-to-your-search/60

https://forum.vivaldi.net/topic/47193/startpage-and-vivaldi-bring-more-privacy-to-your-search/66

Quhno's Script:
https://quhno.vivaldi.net/2017/10/20/how-to-add-search-engines-that-use-post-to-vivaldi/

Address (URL) of faulty page:
eg: https://searx.ninja/?q=%s&category_general=on&time_range=&language=en-AU

Expected behaviour:

I want Vivaldi-Snapshot & Stable to allow users natively to add POST-based search-engines [eg, Searx] to the Search Field & Quick Commands, without needing to use an external bookmarklet script workaround.

Then i want to be able to search with those SEs in Search Field & QC with the results page loading in a NEW tab.

Actual behaviour:

POST-SEs like Searx cannot be added to V's SE list natively, only via an external script workaround.

Once added by that workaround way, executing a Searx from the Search Field will only show the actual Results page if user has NOT ticked the V Setting to open in new tabs. Ie, the user must lose the contents of the current tab. If the user does tick that box, the new tab that opens is only the empty Searx front page, not the desired actual search results.

In contrast, doing the Searx from the QC UI does provide the search results in a new tab, but it reverts to GET, not POST.

Catweazle

@stardepp , as workarround you can ad SearX to the webpanel