Any word on M3? (internal mail client)

  • Moderator

    @Codehunter Turns out that in the real world, it is. It's not the only factor, but one which can't be ignored.

    That's partly my fault. As a tester, I have been a leading reporter of such compatibility issues (though not the only one), given that as far as I can tell, none of the current developers even uses a GMail account, while I use three of them, that contain both native and imported (from Eudora, Outlook Express, Thunderbird, Netscape Communicator and M2) mails going back to 2001. Hence, I'm able to find problems no one else even runs into.

  • @Blackbird said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

    @Codehunter said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

    ... But I did not believe that compatibility to gmail is a factor in reliability.

    As of 1 July 2020, the 38% of all e-mail users who currently employ gmail clients would probably disagree ( Vivaldi's not reliably providing gmail access in M3 would kill off any incentive for over 1/3 of the existing client marketplace to migrate to M3... just for openers.

    38% and not a single one is a M3 user. And in my opinion such market share analyzers are very imprecise. When they analyze all the mail traffic (how ever they do that) the main statement is that gmail has the most spam ^^

    Ok, lets end up the gmail point. My suggestion is: Ask the community how important gmail is. Or any other aspect of M3 delay.

  • @Codehunter This isn’t a democracy and you can’t force an official release this way. What should have happened years ago on the other hand is a release as an experiment. I probably said this 12 times already in this thread, but the release can’t be perfect anyway without very broad testing. Don’t know why this hasn’t happened. And I can understand anyone who will be dissatisfied with an official stable release ridden by bugs after waiting for 5 years on it. You really can’t win after this amount of time has passed. Especially considering that anyone but a couple dozen hardcore users have moved off M2 to greener pastures a long time ago.

  • Ambassador

    The official policy of Vivaldi should be to wean users off of Google products, including Gmail.

    If users still want to use Gmail, or have to due to company policy, then they can continue using it even if it is not supported by M3.

    I still use a Gmail account for feedback on my website, because it is mostly spam anyhow, and I use it as a registration address because I don't care much about it.

    My Opera 12.18 client fetches email from Gmail, but I can turn that off it becomes too annoying, and revert to using the Webmail account for my Gmail account, which is what I already do.

  • @luetage said:

    greener pastures

    Ain't nothin' fresher and tastier than a well aged M2.


  • @Ayespy said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

    GMail, which uses a completely non-standard structure to begin with, has been changing how its login, folder structures and folder subscriptions are handled, making it necessary to re-write parts of the client multiple times.

    Do you have details on what Gmail has changed that caused breakage in M3?

  • @burnout426 I guess that partially this is about OAuth 2.0. And maybe 2FA?

  • @jumpsq Hmm, don't know. Can M3 can still log in to Gmail via normal password (base64 plain text) authentication over TLS? That still works in Thunderbird for Gmail IMAP/SMTP at least.

  • Vivaldi should have never said that they will include an email client in a browser. Its been 5 years and nothing yet. They should have made an announcement and started a beta test when it was ready for a public test. They just deceived the people for so many years now.

  • Moderator

    @saudiqbal said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

    Vivaldi should have never said that they will include an email client in a browser.

    They said they would, and they will. No one deceived anyone.

    They said so at the beginning, because they were already working on it (before the first Vivaldi Technical Preview came out), and they thought it would be easier and faster than it was. In fact there was a rudimentary working mail client within the first couple of months. I saw it. It turns out that building an email client utilizing Presto, over which they had total control, was much less complex than trying to build one using Blink. Live and learn.

    I would have imagined that a mail client could not have been built on top of Blink. I would have been wrong about that.

  • @saudiqbal From the Russian Vivaldi Forum, Vivaldi team member Shpankov reports that M3 will be released later this year. I made this screenshot after translating this Vivaldi page from Russian to English:дождаться-не-могу/3?_=1596429098869

    2020-08-03 06_33_58-Window.png

  • Moderator

    @stardepp Shpankov is closer to the boss than I am, but I do know that Jon is just itching to get it out.

  • @Ayespy ...good to know 👍

  • A bit strange to hear that google is changing something in gmail that is causing issues in M3 while my M2 works fine. Well, I understand that the issue may lie within something that I do not use. Nevertheless...

  • Moderator

    @fifonik M2 was built on Presto, while M3 is built on Blink - forcing, for one thing at least, OAuth2 - which M2 does not use. Further, M2 permits (but can hide) duplicate copies of emails, which M3 prevents - but this means M3 must also comply with GMail's non-standard (and changing) handling of folders. I don't know all of the other details. I do know there is something with GMail's handling of indexes and headers which plays hob with M3's ability to fetch some old and non-standardly-coded (or perhaps indexed but non-existent) emails.

    Other email providers have stuck with a standard methodology for IMAP and POP3 for decades. They are less-problematic.

  • Thanks for the information.
    I'd say that Google should be able to consider standards, but I know they rather try to change the standards until they meet their needs, and if they cannot achieve this, they will just not care anyway. Especially on their mail, it gives them more private information when they force people to use their website, there is no real incentive that I can think of to allow for other clients except that their own staff and "power-users" would probably be shitting them (and possibly support for other features like certificates).

    I know that it's totally off-topic, but please someone educate me on how to hide duplicate or even filter mails in M2. Something I have been interested in for a while. I guess that you cannot filter by Message-ID somehow, but if you could, that would be awesome. Or I understood you wrong, but in this case I have no idea what you are talking about.
    (Sorry @Ayespy. I'm eager to know, but I get if you do not want to go further into this.)

  • @jumpsq
    Hi, I set up M2 today for a friend and stuck first with the filters and folders, too.
    Filter are working like other clients do it, "From" "Include" and so forth but M2 does not have folder, it use labels. Select a mail and label it to "Friends", for example.
    It show up in "Unread" and "Friends", open context menu on the label > Properties and in Options is a checkbox "Show in other folder", or similar (German translation).
    Check it and the mail disappear from "Unread" but not really move.
    If you delete the mail in the label it is deleted everywhere.
    I hope it is understandable, my englisch is not good but rusty. 🙂

    Cheers, mib


  • @Ayespy said in Any word on M3? (internal mail client):

    M2 was built on Presto, while M3 is built on Blink - forcing, for one thing at least, OAuth2

    Are you referring to something like M3 using sockets requiring an initial http handshake, which therefore forces oAuth for authentication?

  • Moderator

    @burnout426 I don't know the mechanics of it.

  • @Ayespy No problem. Thanks.

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