Opinions on Java?



  • I've always seen Java as some large, unwieldy beast favored by enterprise software. As such, I've held some disdain for the language. I find efficient code to be a thing of beauty B) Is my viewpoint at all accurate? I recently started C# and remember thinking "Microsoft! You've tricked me! This is JAVA!!" :lol: Eager to hear what others think.



  • It's favored by some big software makers because it's cross platform. It saves costs.
    It's not only an unwieldy beast but an unsecure environment too.

    However,

    saying that Java is good because it works on all platforms is like saying anal sex is good because it works on all genders.



  • Personally I always make sure Java is uninstalled from my system and blocked in every browser, it's unsecure and a huge waste of space to run a simple program on almost every platform… I'd rather use javascript, html5 or a browser plugin instead...



  • I don't remember the last time I needed to run Java. I've uninstalled it from my computers almost two years ago and I've not missed it so far.



  • I also don't install java (in any form) on my pc anymore.



  • As a former Java developer I somehow needed it. Java is easy to understand to write and to read but bloated and unsafe to use. I never ever let it be active in any browser…



  • Java is installed on my private Win and Linux system because Libreoffice needs it, but my fav browser Opera 12, and even others are not allowed to use Java Applets because of security issues.

    In a company i worked before they used Java for some simulation software and Pen testing.

    Uhhh, i forgot: App development for Android without Java? No chance. ;)



  • I keep Java updated and properly configured/disciplined in my browsers.
    Because I use mostly Opera - it is very easy to selectively enable Java only where you really need it to work.

    No problem for 10+ years.



  • I haven't used Java in several years. It's an insecure environment and not really needed in today's internet.



  • I'm waiting for the "Ignore" button to be implemented here.



  • Me too. Been asking for it now for several weeks.



  • It's a bit strange to see that anticipation from Java because of applets. I mean, do they still exist? I thought Java applets died long ago in the late nineties. Are there still websites using them and actually people writing them? If so, I understand the security concerns.
    But if we put aside for a moment the applets, Java is a nice, flexible, versatile programming language. The virtual machine is a heavy beast, but the language itself is easy to understand and implement. Not to mention that it is one of a few fully object-oriented programming languages.
    "Write once run everywhere" though is a nice slogan hardly related to the reality. Same Java code will never run smoothly on different platforms. Unless it's a 'Hello, world!'



  • I have run Java for years and the only problem I have had is the updater tries to install things that aren't part of the update.



  • I really love Java! If you are a programmer, Java gives you so much and it has one of the best ecosystems around. Unfortunately it got some bad press because of some really serious security issues.

    These days there is no real reason to use Java in your browser, but many pages you visit will use it on server side for their backend. And also on the Desktop you can easily create good looking GUI programs, that are hard to identify as 'Java', at least on Windows and Mac OS X.

    Unfortunately many Java programmers do not care of the end user and so you get most time this clumsy "Metal L&F" and everyone says "Java is so ugly", but that's not Javas fault, it's the programmers.

    Sure, Java is sometimes bloated, a PHP script is so easy and fast hacked, that no one wants to dive into mysterious servlet containers etc. But it is very easy to write PHP code full of errors, by producing some stupid typos.

    I am also not happy that Oracle ships Java via java.com with the Ask Toolbar. The easiest way to decrease trust.

    But do you really complain on disc space usage? Or the memory footprint? That's the price of comfort and convenience, and these days with Gigs of RAM and Terras of disc space a pretty weak argument.

    Long story short:
    Java in the Brwoser? No way.
    Java on the server? Always!
    Java on the Desktop? Yes, but beware of unskilled GUI coders.
    Oracle's product politics? Come on guys, You can do it better!



  • @DaJunkie:

    Java in the Brwoser? No way

    Why so?
    Properly disciplined Java in the proper browser is very useful.
    A lot of educational pages use it with great success. I've seen some astronomical sites depending on Java.

    In wrong hands everything is dangerous, a knowledgeable person can safely handle the most dangerous things.



  • @booBot:

    I've seen some astronomical sites depending on Java.

    Could you give some links to such astronomical sites? :)



  • @booBot:

    @DaJunkie:

    Java in the Brwoser? No way

    Why so?
    […]
    In wrong hands everything is dangerous, a knowledgeable person can safely handle the most dangerous things.

    I also appreciate the effort people invest, when creating with Applets educational stuff. And I understand why they do it: Java gives them the power of an easy to learn OO language with a healthy ecosystem.

    But if you take the position of some business you get in real trouble, when you plan to depend on Java applets.

    Customers DO NOT WANT to care. If you use a potential harmful technology they will turn around. If they read 'Java is a security risk in the browser', they do not want to use it. Sure, computer pros like us have no problem configuring their favorite browser and allowing only specific sites to execute this or that plug in.

    But the average customer is not a pro computer user. And there is no reason for them to learn such gratuitous stuff.

    Little example: 3 hours ago I phoned with a customer, and tried to explain to her, how to open a .pref file in Windows Notepad. 10 Minutes later I explained her how to start TeamViewer and did open the .pref in no time by myself.

    I have lot's of contact with customers, most of them is tech staff, but also there are some black sheeps, that have no clue how to unzip an archive to the Desktop or edit a .bat file.



  • Java is as sound a technology as any other.

    The Dalvik form of Java is likely in your phone. Does your phone scare you enough to not use it?

    The FUD around Java was originally a Microsoft marketing ploy, and now Oracle is the target. So? Believe the hype or try it yourself.

    (Side note; this is an opinion piece and that's my opinion)

    The source code for Java is available for the asking. How many holes are in .NET or C#? Few people know, because no one gets to read the code to find out. Only bad guys figure out and share .NET vulnerabilities. To me, that is a much scarier scenario. (By the way, even the figuring out part is a breach of contract for most closed software; so even a good guy trying to protect you is exposed to law suits for trying). It's an awesome system, stacked in the criminal's favour due to our inability to regulate and moderate human greed. That same greed doesn't really like the fact that open and free systems exist, so, those systems take bad press. Personally I trust open and free, more often than closed and proprietary.

    C code runs most of the internet infrastructure. C can expose huge piles of vulnerabilities, and we still get by with the internet. Most of the code is open, holes are more often patched as they are discovered, then after they have already been exploited. Not always, but we don't hear about the 1000 patches, we just hear about the one hole that got away. And very little news about how many Windows machines are part of criminal botnets, until those nets are taken down. So after you've been robbed for a year or two, a hero will come and save you.

    Oh, and I'm a C and COBOL guy. We're supposed to hate on Java for encroaching on our turf. So instead, I've worked on a few ways of integrating Java with COBOL runtimes. Works as well and as safely as all the others I have tried.

    In short, read up on the notices and look at the sources of the information. Don't fall for marketing FUD. Know fear and handle it as such. If you are smart enough to think about avoiding Java, you are probably smart enough to install it and use it safely, simply due to the fact that you are thinking as you go.

    Like a recent TV news report at the Sochi winter games. A reporter turns on a tablet and notices that "badguys" immediately attacked it. Umm, those badguys being other Wifi devices looking for access points. That's how Wifi works. More fun spreading FUD though. Fear is a highly effective power and control technique. Be afraid, be very afraid.

    Having said that, No one is going to suggest that leaving doors unlocked is an overly smart thing, but if a criminal really wants to get in your house, breaking glass is pretty easy, the lock on the door is fairly thin security that make us feel better, and the glass makes life eminently more enjoyable.

    Oh, and run Windows and Internet Explorer - big, closed, and proprietary companies always make the most secure stuff, and are very open to fixing customer problems and heeding concerns. Right?



  • @btiffin:

    If you are smart enough to think about avoiding Java, you are probably smart enough to install it and use it safely, simply due to the fact that you are thinking as you go.

    Well said!



  • @leirom:

    @booBot:

    …astronomical sites depending on Java

    Could you give some links to such astronomical sites?

    Not right now, unfortunately.
    I was visiting them quite some time ago when I was reading about gravity and GTR.

    I've made a quick search on the net right now - a lot of sites come back to the "java astronomy" pattern.


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