Multi-Account Containers
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@cbirdsong said in Multi-Account Containers:
@VENIX said in Multi-Account Containers:
This can't just be easily introduced to Vivaldi for this needs to be done at the core of Chromium itself.
Are you sure this is the case? Polypane, a Chromium-based browser with a single developer, has implemented this feature exactly like Firefox: https://polypane.app/docs/session-management/
As per date on which I made the OG post, the responses we have gotten over the years, the scope and development direction of the Chromium project, the scope and development direction of the Vivaldi:
Yes, I dare say it would be easier for Vivaldi Team to work on Vivaldi-Gecko. I don't think Vivaldi team wants to fork, develop MAC for it and maintain this away from Chromium itself. Though this would be most welcomed and greatly appreciated by so many that know, as well as, those who don't know.With that said, I'm no software developer so I can only imagine the complexity of these processes where forking is easy but development & maintenance is where the handwork is at.
...With that said, Impressive piece of software/tool that goes galaxies away from a mere web-surfing browser. Without a doubt one of the best front-end development tools that I've ran into. I have to make time to test this one out for sure.
Also, a great testament to the talented developer behind it. Respect.
Fellow Vivaldi user, you brought a 20' tall sea wave to a summer water-slide encounter
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But how has arc browser managed to do it which is also based on chromium? They have not the same functionality as firefox multi account container. But they have a way to connect seperate profiles to different workspaces.
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@Veddu likely using a non-standard Browser window instance.
Vivaldi seems to still be basically a Chromium App with (fancy) iframes.But these are details only Vivaldi (or Arc) devs are qualified to answer.
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Multi-account containers like Firefox leads to more disorganization and confusion... so I don't think the solution is that.
But Workspace tied to different profiles similar to Arc seems really something deal breaker to have in a browser.
Workspace without different sessions / profiles is actually not useful... you will basically open another browser / window than use Workspace at all.
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There's a new ish Chromium request for this that was assigned for triage this year.
https://issues.chromium.org/issues/40896879
If people make some noise and let the Chromium team that we want this, perhaps we stand a chance of Vivaldi Workspaces getting the same isolation.
Vivaldi continue to say this isn't possible, but we've seen implementations from WaveBox, Sidekick, Arc, and others.
Perhaps Vivaldi just don't see the value
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@rawkode then where did listening to the users go? Why did community get thrown out of the Window? Why does a one-man dev have to beat an entire Company?
Perhaps Vivaldi Technologies is telling me never to trust a company. Perhaps. Especially closed-source. -
@rawkode said in Multi-Account Containers:
Perhaps Vivaldi just don't see the value
As I have said elsewhere (and which is stated in the Chromium bug you linked to) Chromium's (and therefore Vivaldi's) cookie handling is so closely tied to the Application Window the website is loaded in that it is currently impossible to have separate cookie stores for different tabs in the same Application Window.
Implementing that will require MAJOR redesign of Chromium's Window, Tab, Profile, and Cookie storage to make something like that possible, and that assumes that one can come up with a solution to how to prevent user confusion about which tab is associated with which website account.
I would be very surprised if implementing something like that takes less than a year and not remotely surprised if it takes more than 2 years from actually starting the project.
As for Vivaldi trying to implement this on our own, that is not practical. We already spent several years trying to implement our own implementation of what later was standardized (and implemented in Chromium and Vivaldi) as Partitioned Cookies (a site limited third-party cookie), and while early versions were close to achieving it, as Chromium made changes to the code, more and more of the code we had added could no longer be applied and was lost, and eventually the task would have been started all over again. By that time Partitioned Cookies was becoming usable.
@Kjala There are limits to how much we can change the Chromium source, especially since we have to maintain those updates. For an impression of what is involved see this article
Chromium's source code is available here.
Vivaldi's adaptions to the Chromium code are available here
Developer and Security Expert at Vivaldi.
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@yngve thanks for the clarification.
Knowing it would require a long, technical and complicated effort, which would then be essentially a Fork of Chromium it makes sense that this is a bottom-of-the-pile request, a reasonably justified flat-out denial.But I'm confused, because cookies appear to be shared between windows (e.g., I can't open a new window and sign into a different Gmail account than the first window as whatever account I'm signed in on in the whole session is the account that's used in all windows... among a million other examples)
Would it not at least be possible to divorce the windows' sessions from each other?Not trying to attack it nothing, just looking to understand, because it Would be nice... At least to be able to use separate windows so we don't need to keep multiple browsers/extensions/settings/preferences installed, active and up to date
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@CovenStine said in Multi-Account Containers:
Would it not at least be possible to divorce the windows' sessions from each other?
That is what different profiles (and/or standalone installs) are for.
Tabs can be moved freely between windows sharing the same profile, so you cannot change the profile without removing that capability.
When selecting "New Window" or "Move tab(s) to New Window" the new Window is automatically associated with the profile of the Window in which the action is requested.
Selecting Open Profile X, creates a new Application window, associated with that profile, and thus have a separate cookie store.
The standard Window(s), the private window(s), and the Guest Window/profile are all different profiles. That also applies when you create and open a different profile in a new Application Window.
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@yngve ok so let me rewrite that to make sure I understand
The tab would be nested in the tab group, which is itself nested in the workspace, which is in turn nested in the window, which is nested in the profile.
In order to save all browsing data in the profile, the data retention occurs at the profile level.Trying to insert foreign profile material into the window/workspace/tab would require almost a parasite within the nesting structure- creating a contained virtualized profile that's wholly separate from the profile/window/workspace it's displayed within, except for the UI portion. A call to an external system from 3++ layers deep in the UI.
Good luck fitting a second whole doll into one of those Matryoshka Dolls† eh?
That sounds like a fun challenge for a graduate student, but a huge waste of resources at the full on developer level- for a free product at that...
That about right?Thanks for explaining!
†See wikipedia[dot]org/wik/Matryoshka_doll, apparently I can't post links anymore -
@CovenStine maybe a better way to have a better ideia it is to try to understand how Arc do it.
The chromium updates is being posted there just fine... so they have bigger team?Because there the profile linked to Workspace is working without major issue... so what they did different that others big companies seems hard to do?
For example their Chromium 128.0.6613.85 update was released on August 22, 2024... just 1 day after Chrome received the update on August 21, 2024.
They are not falling behind others company in post Chromium updates even with Workspace with different profiles... that lead me to believe it is not something that is hard / slow to be back ported to Chromium updates... not something that drastic changes Chromium.
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Hello! I would love to see this feature come to the browser!!
over +9000 from me
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@Edmarcio The ARC team is about three times the size of the Vivaldi team.
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@Ayespy Is that the case? When you check on Google both seems to have around 50 employees.
I think the dev team for these niche browser are more like to like... probably Chrome, Edge, etc has way more employees working on it.
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@Edmarcio I ran it though a corporate database. 86 employees, most of them developers. Vivaldi has about 50 employees, fewer than 30 of whom are developers.
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@yngve and what about Nested Tab stacks? Does Vivaldi A.S. see the value of that?
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@Kjala I don't work on the UI, so I have absolutely no idea what those devs consider implementing.
I suspect though, that the current three-level system (workspaces, tab stacks, normal tabs) suffices for most uses.
AFAICT in a quick search, though, there is no feature request for that in the system.
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@yngve said in Multi-Account Containers:
@Kjala I don't work on the UI, so I have absolutely no idea what those devs consider implementing.
Oh, okay.
I suspect though, that the current three-level system (workspaces, tab stacks, normal tabs) suffices for most uses.
AFAICT in a quick search, though, there is no feature request for that in the system.
There's big thread requesting for this feature and you might not know how Vivaldi users have the most unthought of workflows. This browser is used by OG tab hoarders, search engine hoarders, the guys who save such sessions and a lot more. You know; when in doubt, make it an option
