Open letter to Jon concerning M3
-
@codehunter It is sad, especially that M2 was unstable for you. It is completely stable here. It is, in fact, still my default email. Unfortunately, there has never been any choice as to how early to release M3. It is a project, at its core, which is larger and more complex than a browser. And though some dozens of us use it daily, it is genuinely not ready for public release. And although some tire of hearing this, I'm sure, it really does grow closer and closer to release quality all the time. Basically every single new internal tester release contains updates and fixes for M3.
-
I'm still using M2, but for the newly released Linux Mint 19, there are dependencies that I have to ignore in order to install. Seems some of the packages are obsolete now, so it is getting more difficult to stick with it.
Linux Mint 22 Cinnamon
-
@codehunter Thunderbird isn't so bad. I switched to it from M2 years ago. You can do almost all of the same things. You just set them up differently. You can also do a lot of things M2 can't. The downside is that Thunderbird x64 still isn't a first-class citizen.
@codehunter said in Open letter to Jon concerning M3:
And no, i will not went back to M3 if it releases sooner or later.
With Thunderbird's feature set, it'll be hard for M3 to compete. But, M3 could still be fun.
-
I've made many tests to get M2 running stable. But unfortunately, even on a completely fresh installed Windows without any other 3rd party software, M2 crashes permanently. If i disable the graphics driver and switch back to CPU (not GPU!) rendered GDI, it is stable. But a system without accellerated graphics is unusable. If this would be the only issue, i would have to move M2 into a VM. But as a second issue, my mail provider has notified that unencrypted SMTP will be deactivated for security reasons. I had never get M2 working with the secured SMTP of my mail provider - always "Authentication failed". In summary, my beloved M2 is knocked out, whensoever the secured SMTP is forced.
-
@codehunter I don't know why your experience is so different from mine. I have been using M2 in Opera 12.18 since Opera 5.0. I have four POP3 accounts with different providers, and rarely experienced problems. My ancient NTL account still works most of the time (only yesterday it failed to fetch emails for half a day), normally the account checks every 10 minutes whenever I am online. The other account emails are fetched whenever I check manually.
I hardly use Opera for browsing at all, only for editing local HTML files, or for opening a troublesome URL in other browsers for testing. I run it on my secondary monitor for its email client.
I look forward to the day when I can remove Opera, but if I cannot import my email and contacts, M3 (or whatever) will not be useful. I don't store many emails, but what I do keep is an important record of past correspondence.
Specs: AMD A10-6800K, 8 Gb on Win 10 64-bit • Snapshot 1.16.1230.3 (64-bit)
-
@Pesala 100% ACK. I've used M2 for nearly two decades. My last other mail client was Outlook Express on Win 98. Unbelievable! So long... M2 was working fine ever until i had bought an new Intel driven notebook. From there M2 became a nightmare. I think this is also the answer why your expierience is so different from mine, you use most likely other hardware.
As i noticed before, it seems to be an similar bug like the one in Corel Paint Shop Pro X2. In a supported product, its likely easy to fix. But no one works on O12/OM. And Intel has already said that they not want to solve the issue at the driver level.
-
@ugly Just download ftp://ftp.opera.com/pub/opera/linux/1216/opera-12.16-1860.x86_64.linux.tar.xz, extract it to where you want and run the opera exe right from the folder. Its profile will be contained in the "profile" folder right in that folder. Then, in Opera's settings under "Advanced -> Programs", add http and https protocols and set them to open with the browser you want. No conflict or dependency issues on Linux Mint 19 x64 when doing things that way.
-
@codehunter said in Open letter to Jon concerning M3:
But as a second issue, my mail provider has notified that unencrypted SMTP will be deactivated for security reasons. I had never get M2 working with the secured SMTP of my mail provider - always "Authentication failed"
If you have the server name correct and your username and password are correct, make sure the TLS is checked in the account settings and make sure to use port 465 to use a direct TLS connection. If that doesn't work, try the specific Auth settings instead of "Auto". If that doesn't work, try port 587 with TLS checked to use StartTLS.
If you have anti-virus with an email scanner, you might have to set up things in it and have Opera Mail accept a certificate so that the anti-virus and middle-man Opera's connect to scan your emails. Or, you might have to use port 25 in Opera with TLS unchecked so that the anti-virus email scanner can scan your emails and redirect the connection to port 465 with TLS. But, the idea is to try and get things working with the email scanner turned off first.
But, it's better to use the 32-bit version of Opera 12 (from here) and use it just for mail by adding http and https to open with the default application in preferences under advanced -> programs". The 32-bit version is more stable. And, using the suite handles certs better and is more complete in general compared to the incomplete standalone Opera Mail.
-
@burnout426 tested on a fresh installed Windows w/o AV. I've tested Opera x64 some time ago and seen some stability and performance issues, so i've ever used Opera x86 for productive.
Tried SMTP ports 25, 465 and 587 with any combination of encryption config. I've spend some weeks of time for experiments. Support from my mailprovider says it is a problem with the crypt algos supported by server and Opera.
But let us stop talk about M2, its not on my focus anymore.
-
Please let us use M3 now, i am responsible for my own lost emails.
Optiplex 990 / 8GB RAM / SSD / Kubuntu / Always Vivaldi 64bit latest snapshot. Homepage
-
@saudiqbal said in Open letter to Jon concerning M3:
Please let us use M3 now, i am responsible for my own lost emails.
You might be. Vivaldi isn't. Think about the court cases for a business who lost money due to lost sensitive emails. Vivaldi could be stuck with millions of dollars in paying award money.
HP Envy m7 Notebook, i7-45OU Processor, Win10x64 bit, Vivaldi Stable and Snapshot (Standalone)
-
They can always give you a fake mail program, that does nothing, but at least you would be a proud owner of an early access alpha preview of M3
Is that what you want? -
Yeas, thats why absolutely nobody release beta or alpha software, because he will sued to death if something happens....
-
@para-noid said in Open letter to Jon concerning M3:
@saudiqbal said in Open letter to Jon concerning M3:
Please let us use M3 now, i am responsible for my own lost emails.
You might be. Vivaldi isn't. Think about the court cases for a business who lost money due to lost sensitive emails. Vivaldi could be stuck with millions of dollars in paying award money.
Not if they hide it somewhere obsucre with a big, fat warning. i.e. vivaldi://monkeys-are-cool with a warning "IN THIS RELEASE, M3 IS ALPHA SOFTWARE AT BEST. VIVALDI IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR LOST EMAILS." and then there's a picture of a monkey you have to click on 5 times in order to actually enable M3.
-
@motionshot Your need for instant gratification is not a good reason for Vivaldi to release M3. There are far more obvious reasons for V to release a finished product. Think it through. I'm satisfied you will be able to figure it out.
-
another feature, where Vivaldi can grab some users and/or stand out to other browsers
(I know that we can already use this nice little extension)
-
@derday Found this in Feature Requests https://forum.vivaldi.net/topic/24115/rss-and-atom-reader
You might find the search page to be immensely useful https://forum.vivaldi.net/search
Sometimes the results can be confusing at best. Just don't give up. -
Thanks Jon - I like this thread, but I come from the big document maage systems like Documentum and Opentext. These use emails for workflow, and it is more or less everything. You make rules that determine the flow and interaction - the actors involved. Here documents are not just attached but may also be URL - just like in NOTIS-DS. The emails are held in a database and index for fast lookup, allowing search. The documents are stored in a "repository" and protected, and can be "checked out" and stored elswhere. You can check in documents when replying, increment the version / revision and describe the changes - you can make the entire Github and enforce coding standards. The message database seems to be one issue here, well, we have the Unix MBOX format, available open source code. Thunderbird use this, Evolution as well and Apple´s own Mail. It is years since I have used the plaything software.
I would look at the browser code as one to use to provide the user interface. I had never intended to propose a huge solution - just to use a standard open source tool, a simple and proven way of doing things. I recommend to all of you that have not studied the world outside Microsoft to install Linux Mint on an old laptop and use this, then search the net for the open source libraries. Register on Github and make software with others using code that has been produced by others. One of the huge problems we face now is that the phishing and abuse of the net has given us a line of "security software" coded by people trained by Microsoft. They take down mail services when the security is not upgraded on time - it is all strictly hierachical. We ned distributed security certificates - not more entanglement. Use the open source libraries Jon, and the broser to display. Nope, nothing has made me reconsider. -
@knuthf Again, what does this have to do with M3? This is not the thread to discuss documents Microsoft or installing Linux.
Not once is M3 nor it's "hoped for" release even mentioned in your post. I understand your desire to be heard but you might want to start your own topic in the appropriate child board. You may find an index here.HP Envy m7 Notebook, i7-45OU Processor, Win10x64 bit, Vivaldi Stable and Snapshot (Standalone)
-
@zhnujm How else do you get people to test your program or create a base for it than to create an alpha version?
I have been using V since Vivaldi's very first Alpha release. Had Jon and the crew not released an Alpha version of the browser we may not be here today.
An email client is a much different creature than a browser or even the webmail page.
Please let them take the time to ensure it is done properly.
