Perhaps a Stronger Warning Needed for Potential Users



  • After reading so many posts about Vivaldi's lack of some feature or slower that or it is the pits, etc - I wonder if a lot of people who are downloading and trying Vivaldi out do not understand where the program is in its development. There seems to be a lack of understanding of testing of pre-alpha, alpha and beta code before release for public distribution. It appears that some folks are downloading Vivaldi and expecting to get a totally shiny, sparkling, fully implemented distribution. In the past I have been involved in some alpha testing, a good bit of beta testing, but never pre-alpha. I look at the invitation by Vivaldi's developers to try out their program as a real gift. This invitation is pretty unique in the PC software development world and I for one really appreciate it. That being said, I wonder if maybe the warning to potential users should be in LARGER, BOLD, COLORED and FLASHING TEXT and GRAPHICS - [color=#ff4444]THIS PROGRAM IS NOT YET IN A PRE-ALPHA STATE - HELPFUL COMMENTS and REQUESTS ACCEPTED - BUT USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. BACK UP YOUR SYSTEM AND DATA BEFORE USE.[/color] Then maybe they could insert definitions in two syllable words of what the differences are in pre-alpha, alpha and beta releases of the program. And reiterate that it should only be used with this understanding and that non-flaming suggestions, bugs, requests and comments are welcomed.


  • Vivaldi Translator

    I kinda agree.

    A lot of users are complaining about things that should not be even considered as issues/bugs when using TP such as that UI time to time lag (when changing some settings as tab or address bar position) and so on…
    These are "beta state" issues. Not TP one...


  • Moderator

    I agree too, perhaps the alpha development state should be more explicitely shown on https://vivaldi.com/firstrun/ ?



  • Well, anyone who was following the Opera Desktop Team back in the day and reading the comments there, and/or anyone who has any real experience with general users will tell you that warnings don't work. People don't read them or think they know better.

    The only thing that works is patience :)



  • I recall a disagreement with Haavard on My Opera when I dared to suggest that the bold red sticky thread at the top of the forum:

    TURN OFF CAPS LOCK BEFORE POSTING:

    Should not be using caps lock, because people still didn't heed it, and to shout at your users to tell them to stop shouting was hypocritical.

    The Vivalidi page already makes it quite clear what it is. If people don't read that before trying it out, what more can one say?

    What you get now is our first Technical preview. It is a build intended to show the direction of our product. It is not perfect, far from it. Some of the key features we integrate are yet to be implemented, optimization needs to be done. But we hope that you get a glimpse of our product and what you can expect from us.


  • Vivaldi Translator

    Pesala

    For me at least https://vivaldi.com/firstrun/ should contain some info.

    About if RED BOLD TEXT USING CAPS LOCK is needed or not is a bit different topic but isn't it the text you see and read? ;) Be sure that people do not read all (the whole vivaldi.net - not speaking about installer, that's simply "next, next, next for most of them or configure something but I have never read some description in installer if I can't deny/(un)tick what they are describing). They usually read what's somehow marked (for example THIS).



  • @ahoj1234:

    Pesala

    For me at least https://vivaldi.com/firstrun/ should contain some info.

    About if RED BOLD TEXT USING CAPS LOCK is needed or not is a bit different topic

    It's exactly the topic. You suggested using LARGER, BOLD, COLORED and FLASHING TEXT and GRAPHICS -

    The Vivaldi Technical Preview page is well designed by professionals. The trouble is that a lot of kids or dumb users are downloading it without scrolling down to read the whole page, so they don't get the message. That's nothing new. Some users never will accept responsibility for what they install, so it's futile to shout at them. Just remind them patiently when they whine about missing features, or constant crashes, that they were warned on the download page.

    There used to be a bold red text on the Opera blogs too. That didn't work either. The current Opera blogs are a bit more toned down. No shouting, apart from the rather over-sized title.

    http://blogs.opera.com/desktop/2015/03/opera-developer-29-more-sidebar-extensions-appear/



  • @Pesala:

    The Vivaldi Technical Preview page is well designed by professionals. The trouble is that a lot of kids or dumb users are downloading it without scrolling down to read the whole page, so they don't get the message.

    While I certainly understand that's a very subjective matter (to some extent), I'm not exactly sure on that "well designed". It's designed to look very modern and cool, yes. But as for people downloading without scrolling down to read the whole page - to be honest, I don't really blame them. The first few times I've seen that page, I myself didn't notice you can actually scroll down on that page - if you don't notice the scrollbar or click on any of the links in the top right corner, it looks like it's just a single page. So I think it could be tweaked to some extent, and/or include at least some part of the "What can you expect?" text right where the download button is. It wouldn't help a lot (see my previous post), but it could help a bit.



  • I completely agree. The fact (and it is a fact) that many do not read the fine print, as it were, does not mean that more effort should not be made in informing the public of exactly what it is that they are downloading. And making that information (i.e. warning) readily available at the top of the page and in caps and red font is helpful for some. This is an excellent suggestion and in no wise is it critical of the "professionals" who have designed the page. No one is perfect INCLUDING the professionals.



  • @Case:

    … But as for people downloading without scrolling down to read the whole page - to be honest, I don't really blame them. The first few times I've seen that page, I myself didn't notice you can actually scroll down on that page - if you don't notice the scrollbar or click on any of the links in the top right corner, it looks like it's just a single page. So I think it could be tweaked to some extent, and/or include at least some part of the "What can you expect?" text right where the download button is. It wouldn't help a lot (see my previous post), but it could help a bit.

    OUCH! Now I feel rather stupid. :sick: After reading about the first Vivaldi Tech Preview in a couple of postings a day or so after its initial appearance, I decided to try it out. I went to the vivaldi.com page and downloaded it, installed it, began using it, and posting my comments here. Later, when TP2 came out, I went to the same page and grabbed it as well, installed it, and have been using it ever since. In between, I went back to that page a couple of times to re-download the TP file to try to resolve some file-downloading issues I've had in Vivaldi - I figured a file from Vivaldi's own servers would eliminate any server variables within the problems I was having.

    In all that time, through multiple site visits, I never realized the vivald.com page was scrollable. Not once, until I read your comment here. There are multiple pages I visit, especially portal and log-in pages, that are just single, self-contained web pages. Something about the current layout of the vivaldi.com page makes it look just like all those other single pages - perhaps the background image and the ghost browser panel at the "bottom". There certainly are no visual cues on the page that hint at anything further down, and a scroll bar alone can be an easy thing to miss.

    In my case, because I went there already informed about the Tech Preview nature of the browser, I fully knew what I was getting into. But it is easy to see how other folks could fall off the same turnip wagon in the very same way, but in their case having little or no concept about the nature of the browser other than the title in the download button.

    I join in requesting that Vivaldi seriously consider at least putting something (text or graphics or symbols) on the vivaldi.com page that cues a visitor that there's more important material available to be scrolled down to.


  • Vivaldi Translator

    @Pesala:

    It's exactly the topic. You suggested using LARGER, BOLD, COLORED and FLASHING TEXT and GRAPHICS -

    Well, yeah. He suggested this but I would not be that strict. I just like the "idea" of informing them in some way that it everyone will see it no matter what. Now it's just "OK, it's somewhere" but if you do not pay attention - you will not notice.
    (for example red bold text on the first run startpage or when downloading with a dialogue what can be expected in this stage. That I just do not read installation manual and no one else does since only 1 person after a few hours notice that it still says "TP 1" instead of "TP 2". even testers did not notice that…)

    Anyway, my bad, sorry for misunderstanding (But I think that all of us have a bit different point of view on anything so it's natural that one just can't agree with a whole idea no matter how good or bad the idea is :) )


  • Moderator

    Just to amplify: not only does the page not jump out as being scrollable, the inclusion of the wireframe version of an address bar and tabs at the bottom looks like a "final element" (and one that failed to render properly, by not loading some part of the graphics), which fools the visitor into believing that is the end of the page. This may actually be intentional, because the author of the page wants visitors to push the buttons provided, to jump to additional "single-page-sized" content lower on the page.


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