Color management on wide gamut screens?



  • Hello, I am a professional photographer and web designer using wide gamut screens (Adobergb). Until today I used Firefox because it is the only browser usable on a wide gamut screens (after some adjustments in about:config in Firefox).

    The problem is that elements without a color profile must be threaded like sRGB otherwise it looks over saturated in the browser.

    Now today I tried Vivaldi and I was very surprised to see that the colors in Vivaldi look good on my wide gamut screen! I tried Vivaldi before (about 1 year ago) and at that time colors where not good an my wide gamut screen.

    I can not find any information about this on the Vivaldi website. Can anyone confirm me that Vivaldi changed the way colors are rendered on wide gamut screens? In other words: does Vivaldi threat untagged images and elements as sRGB now?



  • Since Chromium 61 code was integrated in new Vivaldis.
    Untagged is treated as sRGB. Color profiles are counting now.

    I cant tell if Wide Gamut is ok as my EIZO does not have such color space.



  • Thank you Gwen. But does Google Chrome not use this Chromium version? Because in Google Chrome color management is not working like this at all!



  • @opti said in Color management on wide gamut screens?:

    Because in Google Chrome color management is not working like this at all!

    I do not know. Perhaps they deactivated it by deafult.
    Inspect it in Chrome at chrome://flags/#enable-color-correct-rendering



  • Yes, it was disabled by default. At least, in Google Chrome portable (the version I use). But I discovered something else today when I compared Vivaldi with Firefox, to see how these browser display the colors on my wide gamut screen. The thing that caught my attention where not the colors anymore, but the fact that photos displayed in Vivaldi look not sharp compared to the same picture displayed in Firefox. And I don't talk about a minor difference here! Then I looked in Google Chrome and I see the same; photos by far not as sharp as in Firefox!

    Not only the photos but also the fonts are not as sharp as in Firefox. But for my as a photographer (and web designer) these chromium based browsers are not usable for my work.

    What is the problem here? Why is Firefox able to render photos as it should and chromium based browsers look blurry compared to Firefox?



  • @opti said in Color management on wide gamut screens?:

    Not only the photos but also the fonts are not as sharp as in Firefox.

    With a little bit of luck the font problem might be solved in the near future - at least for the OS I can test on. No promises though.

    And yes, I envy Firefox for its font rendering engine, superior over all other browsers out there, but at least the sharpness problem should be no problem anymore after the rewrite lands (depending on the OS)

    But for my as a photographer (and web designer) these chromium based browsers are not usable for my work.

    I have heard that more than once and even seen comparison screenshots from others showing it but I could never reproduce it. For reference I have just taken a non'shopped JPEG in ProPhoto colorspace which was shot perfectly sharp with a Hasselblad H6D 100 and made screenshots of XNView, Photoshop, Vivaldi 1.12 (Stable) and Firefox 56 displaying it. Then I created difference images of the screenshots against the original and it was exactly zero, provided they were displayed with 100% resolution.

    Of course as soon as you do funny things, like taking e.g. 3k by 4k image and squeezing it into a .75k by 1k size by use of CSS, or as soon as you use the zoom settings in the browsers, all bets are off because then they start doing all kinds of funny stuff like smoothing, resharpening etc.

    Off topic and personal remarks:

    Especially as a web designer you should use chromium based browsers for work and especially if they are worse than Firefox - because that is exactly the tool most people will use to view your work. You should make sure that they get the best possible experience too. Additionally you should cross check on non-hdpi and non-wide-gamut screens with 1080p or even lower resolutions too, because most users who view it on decent sized screen (aka non-mobile or tablet) still use a resolution similar to that.

    In the end the only thing you can rely on is:
    Most of the people out will not see the image as you see it on your screen using the best possible equipment you can afford ...

    ... and I did not even start ranting about uncalibrated monitors, missing color profiles in the OS, bad environment lighting, glary monitors, non-glaring monitors, dust on monitors - and then there is the known color space reduction problem with several NVidia GPU drivers, "improvement" mechanisms (sharpening, vibrancy, and all that driss) of monitors with asinine settings etc. pp ...
    You wouldn't believe what people in the wild do to our nice images :)



  • I cant see any differences of sharpness of between 100% in Firefox and Vivaldi and Chrome.

    The Canvas or CSS resized smaller images (interpolation!) may differ depending on Mozilla or Chromium.
    http://phrogz.net/tmp/canvas_image_zoom.html
    https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/image-rendering
    https://stackoverflow.com/questions/3900436/image-scaling-by-css-is-there-a-webkit-alternative-for-moz-crisp-edges/8888964#8888964



  • @gwen-dragon said in Color management on wide gamut screens?:

    I cant see any differences of sharpness of between 100% in Firefox and Vivaldi and Chrome.

    The Canvas or CSS resized smaller images (interpolation!) may differ depending on Mozilla or Chromium.

    Just re-checked with CSS resizing:

    • Zooming in is nice, even slightly better than in Firefox, especially with JPEG images
    • Zooming out is slightly different - but definitely not worse, only different

    ... and even that would be me whining on a very high level because I needed to enhance the difference image and almost press my nose on the screen to see it :D



  • I did some other test and you are right Gwen-Dragon. When I look at a photo that needs no resizing in the browser (so I can view it at real 100%) then both Firefox and Vivaldi are sharp, no differences!

    But when I look at a photo that needs to be resized in the browser then the difference is really big (at least on my screen). Firefox is really a lot sharper in that case!

    Now, I visited a lot of different websites to do some more comparisons and quickly realized that on almost every website there is a lot of resizing needed in the browser. My conclusion can not be anything else that when I want to view photos in the best possible quality there is no better browser for that than Firefox!

    But I really like the hole Vivaldi idea a lot, and will keep it too. And yes QuHno, I will also use Vivaldi to check the websites I build and see how they look in a chromium based browser :)



  • @opti said in Color management on wide gamut screens?:

    But when I look at a photo that needs to be resized in the browser then the difference is really big (at least on my screen). Firefox is really a lot sharper in that case!

    Then you should fiddle around with the CSS image-rendering i gave you the links.

    Try it with a own webpage and change the image-rendering parameters and inspect in Vivaldi.



  • @opti said in Color management on wide gamut screens?:

    I visited a lot of different websites to do some more comparisons and quickly realized that on almost every website there is a lot of resizing needed in the browser.

    Ans sometimes they use the server software in background to generate suitable picture sizes and that process may create unsharpness, too.



  • 0_1507222442517_test-image-at-500-percent-zoom-in-vivaldi.png

    This is the screenshot of tiny fraction of the test image I used but 500% zoomed in in Vivaldi. For me the sharpness at this zoom level is still impressive.
    (couldn't upload the whole screenshot in full lossless quality because of file size)

    0_1507222863204_zoomed-out.png

    This is a screenshot of the same part of the image zoomed out.

    In my eyes both are as sharp as can be at zooming.


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