I like Vivaldi, but I'm having major problems and I have major suggestions



  • Hi. I've been using Vivaldi for the past few months. So far it seems better than any other browser I have used on Windows 7, but that's not saying too much. Because I've been noticing major problems and hang ups. Plus there are several ideas I have about how to vastly improve the software in order to better meet my needs and improve internet browsing as a whole. Right now I am having to write this message through firefox because the previous session I had of 11 windows seems to be having one HELL of a terrible time reloading. In essence, the vivaldi application is hanging HORRIBLY, just on start up. WHY is this HAPPENING!?? I'm running a quad core processor with 16GB's of RAM. The current system specs show that my system is running at 28% or CPU and 31% of RAM. How hard is it really to just reload the URL placeholders ONLY for my previous 600 tabs? Come on! This is ridiculous!

    Now many will think I'm crazy for using 11 windows with roughly 50 to 100 tabs open per window, but SORRY FOLKS! This is just how I operate! I have severe OCD and things are not going to change for me anytime soon in the way that I use the internet. It's been this way for me for years. I also have high functioning autism and this is just how I roll. My RAM was maxed out at 95% this last time when vivaldi froze and I had to kill the app through the resource monitor. I'll do it again if necessary. The process will just repeat over and over and over again, ad infinitum. However I have so many ideas that could fix these issues and turn Vivaldi into tool designed to cut diamonds out of unpolished stone.

    I need a 'smart browser'. What I actually need is a 'smart computer'. Without giving too much away what I really need is a 3D browser that is built for the 21st century. The browsers of today are outdated, slow sluggish, and cant handle the unlimited amount of information that the internet contains. Not only do I suffer from information overload but my computer and browser do so as well, but to a much greater degree. It's like trying to pump water out of a well using a soda straw sized tube. It's an absolute nightmare!

    Here's what I notice that I like. Vivaldi can handle having hundreds of open tabs for the most part. However I don't like how they shrink into tiny little hangnails that I can barely click on with my mouse. That's a major pet peeve of mine. How can I change that? There should be a limit to how small they tabs can shrink and the user should have total control over that function or as to whether or not they shrink at all. At the limit, the tab should not be able to shrink smaller than the website icon that identifies it. What about being able to also specify the way that the tab bar operates as well? Why can't I change the settings to have a tab bar with normal sized tabs that operates like it does in firefox and internet explorer with left and right arrows on either side? Maybe the tabs could be shrunk some but still fit on a carousel. I think ideally one window should not have open more than 100 tabs. But that is another setting that the user should be able to choose; the maximum # of tabs open per window & maximum number of search categories. For example if I preset a limit of 99 tabs per window and I opened up #100, then it should and in my opinion - should automatically open in a new window instead of the current one with ever so many small shrinking tabs.

    Next, I don't like how the tabs change colors and/or the way that the colors change. I want to be able to change or turn off this function. This is not something I'm used to from using other browsers and I basically don't like it. It's also worse because my monitor is too bright for my eyes and so I have to turn the brightness down which makes dar colors really dark and can obscure dark tabs and dark pictures. HOW DO I SHUT IT OFF OR MODIFY THIS FUNCTION??? It doesn't appear to be an option within the settings panel. I need a lot more options when it comes to tabs. I want TOTAL CONTROL over my tabs. I may not be able to remember everything right now that I have been wanting but I can rehash some of it.

    Number one, I do not like tab stacking because it's too, two dimensional and my brain doesn't work like that. When I first watched the browser do it and didn't know what it was I thought something was screwed up. I think this function should be off by default for new users. However, try putting 'stacked' tabs on a 3D wheel and I might be able to work with the concept. I need to be able to better see and group my tabs but I do not necessarily want to group them by color. However, I need a smart browser that can automatically identify keywords and search terms to help cluster tabs by website and topic not only in my browser windows but also in my bookmarks menu. I always bookmark all the tabs I have ever kept open in all my windows because I never get a chance to look at all of them before my browsers crash. I need my bookmarks menu to work differently in this regard in how it can rearrange bookmarks by topic and keyword search terms instead of by date. The by date bookmarking function is almost useless to me in terms of trying to go back and find anything. I need my search results to be automatically clustered and categorized in my history. The way it is now is a freaking nightmare to me and basically a huge waste of time and space!

    I want to be able to group my tabs by category and then alphabetically by title within each category. This is cutting edge 21st stuff folks! What we really need is an operating system that is intricately connected to the browser. That also connect in a similar way with saved files in the computers file system. It would incorporate cross linking of information from downloaded files with jkeyword data saved from search term from websites saved in a persons bookmarks. All this would make it easier for people to go back and find things later. It could also be useful in helping people each to build their own personal web. Essentially a browser that works intimately with the OS filing system to intuitively categorize your information by topic category and areas of interest if you do so choose or as you choose. This is how I think modern 21st century computing should operate by default.

    As far as app hangs the Vivaldi browser software should be able to identify when it's hanging through a smart software program designed to kill the hangs automatically if they time out past 60 to 90 seconds. Vivaldi should be capable of override it's own programming if necessary in order to maintain total user functionality at all times in and an open unhindered interface. If the application has to hang, there should be an explanation dialog box that pops up explaining to the user what is happening and the estimated wait time until the problem is expected to resolve with additional options available to the user to suspend various functions of the operating system which happen to be hanging or restart processes or the entire program. There should be a function within Vivaldi that identifies issues with RAM and in the case of a user such as myself that requires 100's of tabs opened up simultaneously, there should be an automated function that automatically hibernates unused tabs or tabs that have not been opened within a user specified period of time in order to conserve and recover latent RAM resources that can be used to open new windows. Vivaldi could also offer a paid cloud service that could store users open pages for hardware acceleration when reloading previously opened pages so that it doesn't take so long for them to reload when you already have a heavily loaded system.

    This brings me to nearly my last point. After restarting my computer after a major Vivaldi app hang and reaching 95% of my total RAM being used up with 11 windows and 600+ tabs open -- it just now took absolutely FOREVER for all 11 pages to reload. In fact it took almost the entire time in which I was writing this message. Why is this happening? It's ABSURD! The windows should all reload in under 60 seconds as far as I'm concerned. The RAM sticks were emptied of DATA with the previous crash, so what's the problem? I'm running a quad core processor in windows 7 with a 1 terabyte hard drive and 16 gigs of RAM! Now that everything reloaded after 30 minutes, I can see that the RAM is only 33% used and that's with all 11 vivaldi windows reloaded and a window of firefox, as well as midori, slimjet, and internet explorer all open as well. I was trying to open brave as well (all other internet browsers) but brave was having problems opening.

    My point is that it should not take 20 to 30 minutes for Vivaldi to reload the tabs from a previous session. Why? It doesn't need to reload the thumbnail from every page or any other information from the internet or hard drive. It would be nice if it could do that efficiently in the background without slowing down my system, but really all I need is a blank grey page with the URL in the address bar------- THAT"S IT! Hello? User settings? What the heck is going on??? What's up? It doesn't need to load every screenshot thumbnail that shows when I hover over the tabs during a normal session. If that's what's slowing the session reload to a screeching halt then PLEASE, KILL IT!!! PLEASE!!!

    Used to be when I used Firefox before it when defunct (and I couldn't open more than 50 tabs without it hanging) I used to be able to reopen a session with several windows and hundreds of tabs with my internet connection disabled and it would as I just described, reopen say 300 blank pages with only the URL placeholders once it recognized that there was no connection. Then I could go back and only reopen what I was most interested in. However without the needed categorization system if was still basically a nightmare. However I digress. My point is that there SHOULD BE A USER SETTING AVAILABLE TO DO THE SAME THING IN VIVALDI BY DEFAULT, if selected by the user. My point is that I want more settings. Setting for this and that and everything you can think of that comes up. I need more settings, not less. Feel free to make the settings as complex as any user wants to specify over time. That's what would make me happy.

    I have still not settled on Vivaldi as a permanent browser. It seems to be one of the best I have used so far, but that's not saying much in my opinion. I need a 21st century browser. I actually would prefer my browser to be 3D. I need my browser to be intuitive and possibly incorporate artificial intelligence functions. I want it to be able to adapt to my needs and anticipate my future actions. Again, I'm thinking that it may require a seamless operating system. I would be willing to pay for such software. I really can't stand the way that so called 'modern' computer systems work. Maybe I need to try an apple since I am so used to running a PC. Honestly I prefer Linux over windows. I think it's faster. Speed and greater functionality is what I'm after. The current systems are too linear and left brained. They are too rigid. I need something more dynamic and that can be customized by the user to the Nth degree. Thanks.



  • @nmichael79 That's way too much for me to read.

    I suggest condensing it to a new post with a half dozen bullet points, and posting it in the right subforum.


  • Moderator

    Sorry, too long to read.

    If you think a feature is useful and missing in Vivaldi, please make a request.


    How to make a feature request for Vivaldi
    If you think your problem can be solved by a missing feature, please separate requests at https://forum.vivaldi.net/category/48/features-requests in the corresponding thread for your browser version.
    Add one line in bold as a short title for the feature and 2-3 lines to describe the wanted feature.




  • Holy cow; Leo Tolstoy has joined the forum .



  • Haha, Steffi as usual.
    /me hit ignore button.



  • @mib2berlin Which do you want? War or Peace?


  • Moderator

    @nmichael79 Please give the post more structure.
    Nobody can distinguish what is important and what not.
    Currently the post is more a summary of your brainstorming than a readable text.



  • @nmichael79 I tried to make sense of the many words. Here is some feedback.

    reload the URL placeholders ONLY for my previous 600 tabs?

    I believe vivaldi already does this through it's hibernating tabs. At least, it does so for me.

    many will think I'm crazy for using 11 windows with roughly 50 to 100 tabs open per window

    Vivaldi is built with power users in mind. I think this qualifies as a power user case.

    [RE: Tabs] I don't like how they shrink into tiny little hangnails

    I agree.

    could be shrunk some but still fit on a carousel.

    I suggest visiting the feature requests sub-forum.

    don't like how the tabs change colors

    Go to settings > themes > edit the theme and you can turn off accents. Or go to settings > appearance and limit the accent saturation

    do not like tab stacking ... too, two dimensional
    putting 'stacked' tabs on a 3D wheel

    Interesting concept. I'm not sure how that would be implemented.

    automatically identify keywords ... cluster tabs by website and topic

    ditto

    time outs ... to 90 seconds.

    That sounds unusable.

    Vivaldi should be capable of override it's own programming

    Conversely, I think a program should stick to a specified function and not deviate from what a programmer dictates

    If the application [hangs] ... be an explanation dialog ... what is happening

    I would love if every application did this, unfortunately, if there is an unintended hang, there would be no way to send out a notification

    and the estimated wait time

    I never trust estimated wait times

    conserve and recover latent RAM resources

    I've never had to run into this as i'm a low-tab-count user, but I think vivaldi does auto hibernate old tabs if many are open (I might be mistaken on this)

    Vivaldi could also offer a paid cloud service that could store users open pages for hardware acceleration

    You could rent your own server and ssh in with x11 being piped out.



  • @nmichael79 The post is long because of repeated paragraphs!

    However, one point I did make out was the reference to TAB colours, which you want to disable.
    This can be done under Tools/Settings/Themes
    Select the theme you are using and edit it (using the "pen" icon).
    Set the field "Accent " to the colour you prefer then disable the option "Accent Color from Page"
    Press the "pen" icon again to save your changes.

    Regarding Tab Width / Tab Bar Scrolling, there are requests for these in the feature request thread
    https://forum.vivaldi.net/topic/20968/feature-requests-for-1-13
    which you vote for.


  • Moderator

    @tbgbe said in I like Vivaldi, but I'm having major problems and I have major suggestions:

    The post is long because of repeated paragraphs!

    I cleaned some of that up. It's still a novel.



  • 600 tabs? WOW
    I do not understand half of what the partner writes, but I think if Vivaldi goes like a lightning in my poor 10-year-old laptop with 40 tabs open, there must be other causes wrong in this user's PC



  • OP has to be in IT, and I emphasize completely.

    If there was a linux tabOS, I would run it.
    The way I work is based on topics. Being visual, I remember what I was researching and can go back to that group of tabs and continue the thought, training, research, etc that I got distracted from in the first place.

    Placeholders would be great.



  • Yep, crazy. I use ONE window with maybe a max of ten tabs EVER. If you're not going to change your browser usage style to something sane, don't expect your needs to be met. It's like walking into a Mexican restaurant and asking for: Chinese food, with Italian dressing, and some obscure dish from Norway, with sauce made on Mars (the planet.)
    I'm so sorry about your difficulties but I can not sympathize.



  • @fixitmanaz said in I like Vivaldi, but I'm having major problems and I have major suggestions:

    Yep, crazy. I use ONE window with maybe a max of ten tabs EVER. If you're not going to change your browser usage style to something sane, don't expect your needs to be met. It's like walking into a Mexican restaurant and asking for: Chinese food, with Italian dressing, and some obscure dish from Norway, with sauce made on Mars (the planet.)
    I'm so sorry about your difficulties but I can not sympathize.

    Other Chromium-based browsers can handle hundreds of tabs just fine.



  • @nmichael79 said in I like Vivaldi, but I'm having major problems and I have major suggestions:

    I don't like how they shrink into tiny little hangnails that I can barely click on with my mouse. That's a major pet peeve of mine. How can I change that?

    Have you tried having tabs on the side? (Left or right) That's amazing! It's like the best feature ever!



  • I can't get my head around using 11 windows, each with 50 to 100 tabs. I can't even imagine a reason for something like that.



  • @xtremalraven WHY would anyone design a browser to do that? I have trouble enough keeping track of what tab to click on when I have up to ten open. I close most if not all of them when I find this many open, there is NO way to use them all at once, or even remember where they are on the tab bar.
    Might as well just open them all in thumbnails and not focus on one, you couldn't even see them and then you could shut off the computer since it would be useless to you, and go do something productive, like put up a wall or dig a ditch or clean your toilet.
    No one needs this functionality, at all. Use bookmarks instead! No need to keep hundreds of websites loaded on your computer, it's more like having several HUNDRED dishes from various countries hot (or cold) on the table in front of you. The dishes would not fit, and the table would collapse.
    I suggest people that do this change their browsing style, maybe do without tabs for a few weeks, and only have one browser window with one tab open, to break such a bad habit.
    I mean after all you can only interact with ONE page at a time anyway, why have all that stuff cluttering up your computer?



  • @fixitmanaz Because that's how a lot of people, including me, work with their browsers? Asking people to adapt the way they work to the tools/browsers, is looking at things completely backwards. The tools should adapt to how people work best and most comfortably. And that's what a lot of other browsers do very well. Firefox, for example, is known to work well and fast with a thousand or more tabs open. If they can do it, others should be able to, as well.

    Tabs are not about working on several things at once. You would need multiple or split windows for that. Usually, one browser window only shows one tab at a time. So if that is your reasoning for why having many tabs doesn't make sense, then the logical conclusion would be that browser should not support tabs at all.

    Bookmarks are not equivalent. They add a considerable number of indirections. Let me give you a quick example of how and why I work with hundreds of tabs. I may go through a number of newsletters, or product listings, forum topics, etc. I middle-click all of the entries (news stories, products, forum threads) that I'm interested in and want to have a look at. These are all opened in tabs. In a way, this is a stack of "to-do" items that I go through. When I'm done with something, I close it. Bookmarks don't fit that paradigm, they're designed for more permanent storage. In my case, I had to create, manage and delete hundreds of bookmarks every week, or even daily, just so I could keep track of which URLs to still check out. That's at least two click for setting a bookmark, one or two to open it from the folder, two more to delete it, for each bookmark. When working with tabs, that's one click to open the tab and one to close it, and I don't have to bother with keeping track of anything, because the tab list does it for me. And I get a good sense of how much things I still need to look at by the number of tabs I have open. If one tab is interesting for further study, that is an appropriate use case for a bookmark.

    Your statement of "no one needs this functionality, at all" is certifiably very wrong. Look at how many extensions, tips and workarounds there are out there for making it easier to get Chromium browsers to work better with dozens or hundreds of tabs. Clearly, that would not be the case if it was such a rare scenario. The amount of time, work and frustration I save by Firefox allowing me to quickly work with hundreds of tabs, is the main reason why it's still my main browser. Doing the same work in Chrome or Vivaldi would take me an inordinate amount of time.


  • Vivaldi Translator

    The points from the op was just the usual request & complain. It just the long style to explain it.
    Maybe her/his ocd & autism is the base for this over creative post. I'll take that.

    I understand; the end result still need to be split as different post/thread. I'll try to not comment to any of them except it's sure fact.

    Basically;

    • Paragraph 1~2.
      Vivaldi (still) eat too many resources on start or when using many tabs.
    • Paragraph 4.
      Requesting Tab scrolling ALA Firefox (many tabs). Already requested.
    • Paragraph 6.
      • Tab/Window color change. Change able in Vivaldi settings.
      • Requesting tab search by keyword or term. Already requested. But... I don't get about the smart browser automatically do this part.
      • Requesting bookmark sort by topic & keyword. I don't recall ever requested.
      • Requesting search result to be automatically clustered.
    • Paragraph 7
      • Requesting Group tabs by category.
    • Paragraph 8
      Requests & Suggestions around Resources vs Vivaldi.
      • If Vivaldi hang, it should be able to identify it self through smart software that designed to kill.
      • Request pop up to explain why Vivaldi hang, ETA to resolve it self & what user need to do.
        OK, trivia; How a program could throw a built in error messages if it self hang?
      • Request a function to identify issues with RAM if user try to open many tabs.
      • Request auto hibernate unused tabs with user designated time. Already requested.
      • Request Vivaldi Paid Version. Already requested.
    • Paragraph 9
      After fresh OS & Vivaldi restart, Vivaldi eat too many resources & take too long to open with many tabs. System was high spec. Usual issue.
    • Paragraph 10
      I think, a Request to cache any images related to Vivaldi Startpage. Already requested.
    • Paragraph 11
      Open session (entry) from cache (if internet down). Already requested. And Chromium upstream already cover that for future. Vivaldi devs need not to do anything mostly.

    The rest of entry are practically Why, When, What, Where, exclude How.
    Most (if not all) of them "Already Requested". Only some got Personal Use Case Scenario.



  • It seems there are really two related questions here:

    1. Does Vivaldi have a repeatable, internal problem with opening very large numbers of tabs under certain installation or usage scenarios?
    2. Are the developer resources necessary to identify cause and solve such a problem justified by the number of users needing a browser to open very large numbers of tabs, in light of the other pending design and feature needs of the evolving browser?

    With respect to #1, there indeed have been scattered reports of Vivaldi usage issues with tab counts in the hundreds. Unfortunately, these reports seem not yet to demonstrate an evident pattern, either in usage or in system configuration. Many high-tab users do not see these issues, and detailed reports of tab usage (content type) are lacking; system hardware and other software suite details either are unreported or show no discernible pattern across the users having issues. All of this makes it extremely difficult to pin down a repeatable set of details for duplicating the user issues. If the problems cannot be duplicated, a fix cannot be developed beyond simple guesswork... but guesswork is not a realistic path for writing or debugging software code.

    Regarding #2, while I have no doubt that Vivaldi developers would love to solve all the reported problems and add all the requested features for their browser, in the real world, resource limitations govern what actions can and should be taken. Having been down the path in the past with browser makers discounting the importance of my particular browsing-methodology needs, I can empathize with how high-tab-count users might feel on this. However, I also realize that the further my usage diverges from the usage in the 'mainstream', the less likely that developers will be justified in taking away from precious resources and time to support my divergent needs.

    At the end of the day, users can only choose the browser that best supports what they do while knowing (and constructively reporting with supporting detail) the limitations that it exhibits while on their own systems. After that, it's up to the browser maker to determine what needs to actually get fixed or added... or not.


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