My friends at Google: it is time to return to not being evil

  • Vivaldi Translator

    @jon: you probably misuranderstood what i meant... i was talking about vivaldi giving the users a better web, and that's because google is giving us a bad one :)

  • That's sad to hear, but let's be honest and take a look at what's happening with Google in general. What Jon is telling us is just one of the things where you can see that Google has lost its down-to-earth attitude. How many messengers have they testet until now, including Google Allo? I think there are 9 oder 10 at the moment which Google is offering to its customers. There's also a lot of noise now in the world of YouTube where even whole channels are declared as not advertising friendly. Sure you can always discuss about quality of the content and it's imho just stupid to start gambling that YouTube/Google will take care for your whole income, but the problems with YouTube's algorithm have always been there and can now even wipe away a whole livelihood (again, I know that it`s stupid only counting on Google).

    On the other hand we really need Google from a technical standpoint which is the other side of the coin. Go (together with Rust) is one of two new programming languages which is growing really fast at the moment. Kubernetes (which is important for cloud infrastructures) started at Google. Angular is a very important (or at least a very popular) JavaScript-framework. And, last but not least, Chromium is involved in many other projects like Node.js or Electron.

    I don't know if this is the right way to say this, but Google today is in a similar or even bigger position than Microsoft was back in the days. The truth is that its very hard to move around Google's technology and its no secret that Google will have even bigger influence on our lives when the Google Assistant is finally integrated into Google Chrome (which is going to happen according to the German GoogleWatchBlog). I'm thinking about ways how to deal with this in the future myself, but I don't have the answers just yet. Anyways, this will be a very "interesting" story in the future.

  • @cout said in My friends at Google: it is time to return to not being evil:

    @ksx4system YouTube + Google + Gmail + $google service here ~= 90% of the web. Also love how THIS is your counterargument.

    It's really not though... It might be what you GO TO 90% of the time, but the content passing through Google is mostly coming from elsewhere on the web.

  • @steffie Yes, France has this useless data retention that is illegal in the EU according to the ECJ. That's why in France, nowadays your mobile phone takes 10sec to connect. It first registers with their slow servers in Paris ...
    But data retention doesn't serve anything if you don't have the IP, cookies nor fingerprinting. So as qwant has no data about you, the data retention required is useless. But of course I use other search engines too. To avoid monopoly, one always needs to use various browsers and search engines and things.
    And yes, it would be cool to have vivaldi on my jolla phone :)
    BTW, if I close a tab in vivaldi, I sometimes get hangs in plasma and high CPU consumption. Do you experience the same? Might be my KDE prefs from 1995 ...

  • @cqoicebordel: Google is not just removed their "don't be evil" policy, Google is a liar! Can not insert links, so proof search by phrase "Google Inc. blatant lie in the official complaint!"

  • @kimmoj Right, the rabbit hole is deeper, well said.

  • @rigo No, my V & Plasma5 behaviour is not at all as you described -- i only changed to openSUSE Tumbleweed in May/June this year, from Maui, & before that Mint KDE4. oS TW P5 is giving me THE best, most solid & reliable, P user-experience i've ever had, KDE4 or KDE5, & of any distro i've tried. I'm simply thrilled with it, so that really disappointing to hear that you're not enjoying the same behaviour. What about if you were to create a second user account, thus with default Plasma settings, & try V therein?

  • I think its time we all stopped using Google search - without their dominance in search they would be less powerful. Lets all use Bing, DuckDuckGo, Qwant, Yandex, Ecosia, Startpage etc. as much as possible!

  • @steffie probably a good idea. But migrating my complex setup would be a lot of work. It is already a good indication that it doesn't happen to you. So there is no general bug, but rather some config that isn't appreciated ...

  • Vivaldi Team

    @mossman: You are welcome to use your mail account. We will be there. It is ad free and we do not scan your email.

  • Vivaldi Team

    @niheiguilty: You are welcome to use your mail account. We will be there. It is ad free and we do not scan your email.

  • Vivaldi Team

    @luca247: Ah. Understood. We do try our best. :)

  • Vivaldi Team

    @chas4: Yes, we had to spend a lot of time on this at Opera and I thank you for your help there!

    The feeling is that we should not have to do this at Vivaldi, but we do. Mostly Google services, though, which makes no sense at all from a technical point of view.

  • Vivaldi Team

    @xrksed: Thank you for your kind words. I agree with you. Privacy and security is not getting the attention it deserves. In particular I think tracking and targeting has gone way too far and we need regulation to fix that or even enforcing the laws that already exist.

    With regards to making a phone, I would love to do so, but I think our focus needs to be on building the best browser in the world!

    I use a lot of phones, to be frank. I like to test phones to see what the best phones have to offer, but also what less expensive phones have to offer. It is important when working on our mobile browser to think how we can provide a great experience across as many phones as possible.

    Currently I am using a Huawei Mate 9 Pro and a Oppo N1 Mini, but I have been testing and using phones from Nokia, Sony, LG, Oppo, ZTE, Huawei, Samsung, MyPhone and a lot more. It is nice to see that you can get fairly cheap phones, less than $100, that are pretty good phones overall, nice screens, etc. There is still the privacy issue. I guess the best way to stay somewhat private is to keep different logins for each phone, but clearly that should not be needed and you are still tracked more than you should. Lets hope this will change.

  • Vivaldi Team

    @nintoad: This is a lot more complicated than that my friend. Google is a monopoly in both search and advertising. When they block a company from advertising, it not only applies to their platform, which would be bad enough, but also all other sites that use the Google ad platform. I am sure you can see that is a problem. There is a lot of sites that use Google ads.

    There are rules for monopolies for a reason, as it can be quite tempting for these companies to misuse their power, whenever they face competition of any kind. I hope Google will recognize that with great power comes great responsibility.

  • Privacy is every Americans right. Freedom of speech and freedom of the internet,. We must keep the internet free from the government. No tracking search engine that owns its own search results try it have a great day. There are many other options to get away from google

  • Vivaldi Team

    @epipping: You are mixing things a bit my friend. Although I was co-founder and CEO of Opera, I am now co-founder and CEO of Vivaldi.

  • @stevecarr123 Privacy and freedom are rights everyone should be afforded, not just Americans. And considering the internet is a global system, it is important that such "real world" rights are also applied here.

  • @jon said in My friends at Google: it is time to return to not being evil:

    @mossman: You are welcome to use your mail account. We will be there. It is ad free and we do not scan your email.

    Ah... But will you still be around in twenty years' time? ;)

    Since I've just spent a couple of months informing everyone of my Hotmail account I won't be switching to Vivaldi just yet. But I sincerely hope that in a couple more years Vivaldi looks healthy enough for me to make that change...

  • @jon: True now Mozilla is even using Yahoo as main search option, since Mozilla is also discovering the evilness of google, Google just threw me away like trash, after finely running a adsense account from 2005 and decided to close it the minute I start developing apps last year, they start to get some request from my account, and Google decides to ban me and bans all the domains related to my account, and now my whole project has gone to limbo thanks to dear google, facebook is in the same page, where if you want something to be actually viewed by real people, you have to pay money, otherwise no one is ever going to see that and Facebook makes sure of this.

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