There is a reason that prevents me to move to new browsers from Opera 12 (many tabs in one window)



  • Good afternoon. There is a reason that prevents me to move to new browsers from Opera 12. This tabs view, when they opened a lot in one browser window. Let me show you an example. 30 tabs in 1 browser window (it may be ) For example I have specifically chosen small window size (width: 401, Height:1030) and an equal number of tabs = 30. In real work in the browser width and number of tabs can be larger, but the example shows how it becomes uncomfortable to work with tabs Vivaldi 1.0. 111.2 when the number of tabs reaches a certain limit (as same as in Chrome or in FireFox, but not in Opera 10.6 or Opera 12.14 with skin opera_9_5_standart_skin_wclim-1_0). 30 tabs on 1 window (width: 401, Height:1030) in Vivaldi 1.0. 111.2: Attachments: [img]https://forum.vivaldi.net/uploads/attachments/32631/vivaldi_1.jpg[/img],[img]https://forum.vivaldi.net/uploads/attachments/32631/vivaldi_2.jpg[/img],[img]https://forum.vivaldi.net/uploads/attachments/32631/opera_12.04.jpg[/img],[img]https://forum.vivaldi.net/uploads/attachments/32631/opera_12.04_2.jpg[/img]



  • 1. When the number of tabs up to a certain limit, the Vivaldi 1.0. 111.2 it become impossible to close the tabs on panel, because sign X is placed on a tab with a small width.
    2. Difficult navigation with a large number of tabs opened at the same time in Vivaldi 1.0. 111.2. They all merge and so that they cannot be distinguished from each other.
    3. While writing this post I found a mistake in the tabs preview. Vivaldi homepage is only open on the first tab in Vivaldi 1.0. 111.2 and first in Opera. In Vivaldi when I start move mouse over from first Tub to 20 show a smaller version of the first page Tub№1 on Tab№20 (20 Tab is page of Google Search but not the Vivaldi homepage).

    You can found skin for Opera 12 here (it was standard opera 10.6 or 9.5 standard skin):
    http://www.filedropper.com/opera95standartskinwclim-10
    Attachments:
    ,



  • So, solution is, when there are many tabs open ( when they begin to shrink in size ) dynamic change of size of tab under the mouse pointer?
    What i mean is, when you hover with mouse over shrinked tab, it gets larger so you can see name on tab and ofc x sign. Well, maybe not x sign, you can middle click it then, cause if u move right a bit, it should enlarge tab next to him, so would be impossible to reach to x sign.
    Kinda hard to explain in words.
    Have no idea if its possible to be implemented tough, performance wise in first place.

    edit: or maybe just put x sign in tab preview poput window



  • @Username_:

    1. When the number of tabs up to a certain limit, the Vivaldi 1.0. 111.2 it become impossible to close the tabs on panel, because sign X is placed on a tab with a small width.

    Use middle mouse button anywhere on the tab.



  • So, solution is, when there are many tabs open ( when they begin to shrink in size ) dynamic change of size of tab under the mouse pointer?

    not quite, solution is dynamic change of size of all open tabs. For example, do not draw on each Tab X sign when opened a lot of tabs. Instead of an sign X, draw small rectangle (20% of tab size) if a lot of tabs open. In opera screenshot rectangle color is red and tab color is black.
    Attachments:
    ,



  • @starkcitizen:

    @Username_:

    1. When the number of tabs up to a certain limit, the Vivaldi 1.0. 111.2 it become impossible to close the tabs on panel, because sign X is placed on a tab with a small width.

    Use middle mouse button anywhere on the tab.

    And so what? It does not solve this: 2. Difficult navigation with a large number of tabs opened at the same time in Vivaldi 1.0. 111.2. They all merge and so that they cannot be distinguished from each other.



  • I just gave you simple solution for the issue you described. You think that you are the first one to notice that handling of many tabs needs some work? I think you don't have to be Einstein to see that it must be corrected.
    However even when they fix it to some level (there are always people who will say that it could work better) I still can't see better solution for closing tab than middle mouse button. It's just the easiest and the most efficient way to close tabs when you've got dozens of them.



  • Anyway I don't really understand the need of having such of a mess of opened tabs.

    X button or not, separator or not, so many tabs are still indistinguishable from each other, so the time gained having the tab already opened will be shadowed by the time spent figuring where the tab you need is.

    Middle button is the best way to close a tab, but in an overcrowded tab bar may be wort to assign the CTRL+F4 combination to one of the mouse buttons: one click to focus (and check) the tab yo want to close + one click to close it.



  • Truth be told, while I perfectly understand the need to use many tabs at once (my normal average is 50), I've yet to reach a point in Vivaldi where they would become indistinguishable from one another. Even with 50+ tabs, in a maximized browser window, every single tab is perfectly identifiable by its favicon. In Chrome/Chromium, this is a much bigger problem, since the tabs take up a lot more space visually.

    Also, Vivaldi in its current state seems to slow down noticeably when going over something like 30 tabs here and with around 50 tabs, it becomes quite unresponsive in general.

    And I wish the "x" button on tabs could be disabled. I don't think anyone who tends to work with many tabs uses it anyway, there's several better options for closing tabs without the need for such button.



  • @starkcitizen:

    I still can't see better solution for closing tab than middle mouse button. It's just the easiest and the most efficient way to close tabs when you've got dozens of them.

    Hmm, my mouse does not have a middle button. What to do, my friend … ?



  • @helsten2:

    @starkcitizen:

    I still can't see better solution for closing tab than middle mouse button. It's just the easiest and the most efficient way to close tabs when you've got dozens of them.

    Hmm, my mouse does not have a middle button. What to do, my friend … ?

    I have a physical disability and using the middle mouse button is almost impossible for me.



  • Buy some Vivaldi developer a beer and ask to implement SHIFT + LMB to close tab (this works on Opera 12 and on ChrOpera) :P You can also use some mouse emulator to assign missing button to a keyboard, http://neatdecisions.com/products/neatmouse/
    @helsten2
    You can also… buy yourself a proper three button (at least :P) mouse and make your problem disappear :)



  • It already is there as CTRL+LMB (same as Opera Presto and I believe IE)



  • This is my current O12 tab bar.

    As you can see, 51 tabs, which are all perfectly distinguishable at a glance due to the favicon, perfectly selectable due to disabling "show close button on each tab", and perfectly closeable without lifting the finger with the left mouse button or learning yet another shortcut, due to the standard MDI window controls that appear on the right when "show menu bar" is enabled and that are the same as in other Windows MDI programs, providing a uniform and very efficient UI.

    At the moment, no browser comes close to this functionality. I hope Vivaldi implements it.
    Attachments:



  • @starkcitizen:

    I just gave you simple solution for the issue you described. You think that you are the first one to notice that handling of many tabs needs some work? I think you don't have to be Einstein to see that it must be corrected.
    However even when they fix it to some level (there are always people who will say that it could work better) I still can't see better solution for closing tab than middle mouse button. It's just the easiest and the most efficient way to close tabs when you've got dozens of them.

    i'm appreciate you help, but it's not a solution. It's a workaround and only for one of three issues. :(

    @Al-Khwarizmi:

    This is my current O12 tab bar.

    As you can see, 51 tabs, which are all perfectly distinguishable at a glance due to the favicon, perfectly selectable due to disabling "show close button on each tab", and perfectly closeable without lifting the finger with the left mouse button or learning yet another shortcut, due to the standard MDI window controls that appear on the right when "show menu bar" is enabled and that are the same as in other Windows MDI programs, providing a uniform and very efficient UI.

    At the moment, no browser comes close to this functionality. I hope Vivaldi implements it.

    I hope so too.

    You can try use skin that i posted above and you will see window with 50 tabs & enabled option "show close button on each tab" (see screenshot).
    Attachments:



  • I just hope they implement tab bar scrolling. You set minimum tab's width, lets say 20 pixels (favicon+borders) before scrollbar appears. It lets you choose how much you can see from tabs (favicon, x close button or even title with width over 150px) and you still are able to display from 40 to 50 tabs. Firefox is doing it for so many years and it just frigging works (just the option how wide the tab is, is hidden in about:config). I don't understand why any other browser does not support it. It would even work better on tablets with fat fingers, you can swipe to scroll through tabs, and easily select correct tab without any "ninja" skill to select tab that is 2 pixels wide.



  • Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anyone mention another thing that makes Opera Presto much better with many tabs open - the [beginning … end] way of truncating tab titles!

    Currently, Vivaldi still shows multiple tabs on this forum all as [Vivaldi.net - Vivaldi Forum -] whereas Opera Presto would show this one as something like [Vivaldi.net … one window)].

    The second option is vastly superior with multiple tabs from one site!



  • Hm. Agree.



  • A truncated title in Opera 12.17 is still pretty useless. The tooltip that shows up when hovering the tab is much more useful than the tab previews in Vivalidi or Opera 12.17.



  • @guzul:

    I just hope they implement tab bar scrolling. You set minimum tab's width, lets say 20 pixels (favicon+borders) before scrollbar appears. It lets you choose how much you can see from tabs (favicon, x close button or even title with width over 150px) and you still are able to display from 40 to 50 tabs. Firefox is doing it for so many years and it just frigging works (just the option how wide the tab is, is hidden in about:config). I don't understand why any other browser does not support it. It would even work better on tablets with fat fingers, you can swipe to scroll through tabs, and easily select correct tab without any "ninja" skill to select tab that is 2 pixels wide.

    bar scrolling is bad idea. that's why i'm still using opera presto :) but not firefox :sick: .
    10 pixels tab can be useful as well as 20 pixels

    Do developers read this forum usually or at least sometimes? :whistle:


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