Future - Vivaldi vs. Opera 12.
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Did you even read the roadmap Vivaldi put forth for features to be added?
sure,
mail - never used it
sync - never used it
nor have i used torrent, irc, or any of those half-baked browser features. i use seperate programs because all browsers crash a lot and i dont care to have corrupt irc, torrents and mail as well as my browser settings which i have to back up automatically using task scheduler.keyboard nav - yeah keyboard nav is great
performance - in my opinion, you cant speed up chrome engine, it sucks.
extensions - speeding adblock up would be nice.
suggestions - i was making a suggestion into looking at different possibilities. licensing presto or whatever non-chrome lib available.if you dont want this suggestion, thats perfectly acceptable. its your browser.
i looked at the vivaldi settings and it felt like a chrome advanced settings page plus added keyboard shortcuts.
if you guys want chrome with opera features, thats fine too. just i am not a chrome guy.i want the smallest browser. with the default old classic windows ui skin, because it uses less resources than the xp or chrome or firefox skins.
because i dont need transparency, tab thumbnails, widgets, screen effects or other features that steal my precious resources.thats why modern browsers retreat to using hardware acceleration, because they know they are KILLING the cpu with this junkbloat.
i'm not demanding anything of vivaldi, nor am i insulting the community, nor claiming that a brand new beta browser should live up to any expectations. chrome was beta for years, i have no problem with that.
what i have a problem with is the basic concept of chrome and every single fork of chrome has been a letdown. i wish vivaldi good luck.
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suggestions - i was making a suggestion into looking at different possibilities. licensing presto or whatever non-chrome lib available.
Presto is a mess, and things are changing too quickly now to keep it up, even with a team like Opera ASA has. That's why Opera ASA made the switch in the first place; where Opera ASA went wrong, however, was also deciding to jettison the power users which formed the community's foundation and stripping out the features they loved at the same time. Vivaldi is rapidly becoming what Opera 15 should have been from launch day.
Also, why would you want Vivaldi to pay money to their direct competitors for a failing engine? It's insanity.
i looked at the vivaldi settings and it felt like a chrome advanced settings page plus added keyboard shortcuts.
if you guys want chrome with opera features, thats fine too. just i am not a chrome guy.Then you didn't look very hard. They already have alternative tab placement, which nobody else has right now. Every tech preview - heck, every weekly screenshot - adds even more features.
i want the smallest browser. with the default old classic windows ui skin, because it uses less resources than the xp or chrome or firefox skins.
because i dont need transparency, tab thumbnails, widgets, screen effects or other features that steal my precious resources.thats why modern browsers retreat to using hardware acceleration, because they know they are KILLING the cpu with this junkbloat.
Again, what antique hardware are you running this on that this is a huge concern? I have a gimpy dual-core windows tablet with 2 gigabytes of RAM that has absolutely no issues running Vivaldi, the only limiting factor is connection speed.
Yes, it would be wonderful if developers coded things more efficiently and iron-bound to standards on the web end but that's not the world we live in.
You have to adapt, to a degree. Up until now, adapting also meant knuckling down and using whatever minimalist stripped-down trash Apple or Google forced down the chute, which is why Vivaldi is so special - it's a browser and group of developers swimming up stream and against the current to give us back features and control, and why it's insanely irritating to me when people demand the developers turn back the clock completely. That's impossible and it's abominably greedy to make that demand.
what i have a problem with is the basic concept of chrome and every single fork of chrome has been a letdown. i wish vivaldi good luck.
Do you intend to retreat to some part of the internet where it's 1994 forever? I've got some bad news, but those sites are becoming fewer and farther between. You could browse the latest on Space Jam, but that's got to get old quick. Facebook already doesn't work at all in Opera 12; Youtube as well. Forums software - such as this very board! - is already at the limit of what Opera 12 and Presto can endure in its current state.
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I will never grasp the mindset of the man who walks onto a Tesla lot, berates them for not selling Ramblers, and declares all-electric propulsion is a dead end.
If you like Ramblers, drive a Rambler. Oh, you say, Rambler was bought up by American Motors, which then went out of business, and the only ones for sale are worn out and out of date? Well, guess what? Tesla is still not going to make and sell Ramblers to make you happy. Yes, Teslas are going to include a bunch of components which, unlike your Rambler, cannot be maintained or repaired by the consumer. No, for now, unlike your Rambler, they are not going to have a 300-mile range. They will be Teslas, as Elon Musk intended. If you don't like them, don't drive one. But why are you harassing the people at their lot?
Some people are not to be understood.
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That's what drives me crazy about all this - Vivaldi is like a thunderstorm at the end of a long, long drought and everyone is complaining that it isn't raining champagne instead, while simultaneously failing to grasp that the rain will feed the grapes that will then be pressed to make their champagne.
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mail - never used it, sync - never used it, nor have i used torrent, irc, or any of those half-baked browser features. … i was making a suggestion into looking at different possibilities. licensing presto or whatever non-chrome lib available. ... i want the smallest browser. with the default old classic windows ui skin, because it uses less resources than the xp or chrome or firefox skins.
because i dont need transparency, tab thumbnails, widgets, screen effects or other features that steal my precious resources. thats why modern browsers retreat to using hardware acceleration, because they know they are KILLING the cpu with this junkbloat. … what i have a problem with is the basic concept of chrome and every single fork of chrome has been a letdown. i wish vivaldi good luck.There are a lot of things I want, only some of which I'll ever find. Reality moves at its own pace, not according to my wants. A perhaps sad reality is that this is not 2005, nor 2009, nor even 2012. Presto Opera is extinct for future development, for several reasons. It's not about to be licensed out by Opera; and even if it were, there would still be the development/site-compatibility problems that drove Opera to abandon it. All of which means the existing Presto browsers are increasingly becoming obsolete in multiple ways, day by day. Use it for as long as you feel you can, but at some point you will be forced by the simple onward march of reality to migrate elsewhere.
And when you do eventually look elsewhere for a browser, you'll have to come to grips with all of the realities of the browser-design business as they exist at that time, not as they existed in years gone by or as you might want them to be. In all probability, at that time: browsers will be bigger; browsers will include features you may not like or need; browsers will most likely be multi-processed, if only for stability/security reasons; browsers will not necessarily have all the things you currently demand; browsers will demand more RAM and more CPU cycles; browsers will be optimized around certain web features or conventions you see absolutely no need for. But reality will dictate that you will have to select from what is available at that time, not from what you "want".
I believe Vivaldi is making an honest, best-shot effort at giving power users the best, most complete, most configurable browser they know how to create, balanced against the realities of the Internet, browser business realities, and the browser marketplace at this point in time. Based on the team Vivaldi has assembled and their past demonstrated track record of innovation, coupled with the creative solutions and rate of progress I've seen thus far in their browser, I believe they have an excellent chance of ultimately hitting the target of my needs square on. If you can find a better, more promising browser approach elsewhere, then by all means check it out, try it, test it, advocate it, and inform others about it. I've been doing such a search for over 2 years - and Vivaldi is the best all-around, most promising answer I've yet come across.
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If you can find a better, more promising browser approach elsewhere, then by all means check it out, try it, test it, advocate it, and inform others about it. I've been doing such a search for over 2 years - and Vivaldi is the best all-around, most promising answer I've yet come across.
you are right. good point. there is no other modern browser that does what i want.
opera 12 breaks on more and more websites every day. its days are numbered.
to answer your question , its not so much limited cpu that i'm complaining about, but limited battery life and disk thrashing.
cheers, you've made me come around on the issue. still hate chrome though haha.
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If you can find a better, more promising browser approach elsewhere, then by all means check it out, try it, test it, advocate it, and inform others about it. I've been doing such a search for over 2 years - and Vivaldi is the best all-around, most promising answer I've yet come across.
… to answer your question , its not so much limited cpu that i'm complaining about, but limited battery life and disk thrashing. ... cheers, you've made me come around on the issue. still hate chrome though haha.
I do understand your concerns about chrome-derivative browsers; I have some myself. My suggestion is to keep politely and constructively voicing those specific concerns at the appropriate times and in the best ways you can. I believe Vivaldi is seriously focused on valid and clearly-explained user concerns. This is perhaps the first time in years that users are being conscientiously listened to by browser developers… so if there are major concerns to users, I believe they will become major concerns to Vivaldi's developers also. As to how resistant chrome-derivative architectures are to solving some of those user concerns, and as to how skilled Vivaldi's developers are in resolving them successfully, of course remains to be seen. But so far, things look to be off to a great start...
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Hi to all. After some time I looked at her post and watch how provoked a storm of controversy. That's good, it is not without controversy development. Some people may have misunderstood my original intention. I do not want to criticize Vivaldi. Conversely. Very, very big fan of him. Using the core of Chrome is a good idea, it works very well core. I know that you can not steal the old Opera House and did not want to. I know many of its deficiencies and had to frequently use Firefox, which is also excellent. All browsers but lacks crucial. That's what I wanted to draw attention and I wanted to point out why we loved the old Opera. The user base was very limited against Firefox. Old Opera was not for the BFU had many, many options and features not common stupid browser. My contribution is therefore to ensure that developers know that you appreciate their work and I support them. I just hope that they do not want to build a browser like Chrome, Firefox, etc. I would like to Vivaldi was for geeky browser
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… I just hope that they do not want to build a browser like Chrome, Firefox, etc. I would like to Vivaldi was for geeky browser
If I understand correctly what Jon has said and written on a number of occasions, building just another chromish browser is the last thing he's trying to do… he wants to restore user functionality and configurability as the design hallmarks of at least one browser in the marketplace. He believes there is a user need for such a design, and he believes a market presence can be created and maintained with such a design. And what Jon thinks does matter, since currently he's underwriting the Vivaldi effort - so he has genuine "skin in the game". He believes there's a need (and a market) for a browser that has configurability and integrated features in a class with Olde Opera - not surprising, since he was intimately involved in the creation of the Olde Opera.
To reach a point similar to Olde Opera in Vivaldi's design represents a journey, and considering the time span for the development of Olde Opera, the Vivaldi journey may take quite a while to reach a similar point of design maturity. The Tech Preview versions are only the first steps on the journey... ahead lie betas, stable versions, and major continuing developmental evolution. But the developers are both gaining experience and expanding their skillsets as they continue incorporating and debugging the features currently unfolding - so I expect major functionality, configurability, and performance increases as time goes by.
My concern, frankly, is not whether they want to build a browser like every other one in the marketplace, rather it lies in whether their economic costs can be sustained over the medium-term haul. If they can be, this browser should come to be all that Jon, the developers, and we users hope that it can.
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Opera 12 is 100% HTML 5 compatible, and will render any markup or scripting to specification. The problem is that websites usually do not adhere to the HTML/XML/JS standards. They just code out, then test in whichever mainstream browser. Most of the time it was just Opera staff contacting the website owner and explaining how their website was out of spec and how they could fix it.
I rarely come across a website that Opera 12 cannot render correctly.
The majority of those websites are using stronger SSL encryption methods that Opera 12 doesn’t support. The rest are using browser detection and redirects, or are just simply written horribly.
Using the Blink engine solves all those issues. Once Vivaldi adds customizable buttons/skins/colors, it will be pretty much indistinguishable from early Opera builds. I plan on porting the Opera9 skin once it becomes available.
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