Will we get (Modal) MDI Windows again?



  • I´m an Opera User nearly since it was born. I made it through the Ad supported version, bought a license, saw how it went free for all and now how have seen how it transitioned to something completely new (which I don´t really like). I´m still on 12.17 and the main reason is it has modal windows. There is no other Browser on the market which has modal windows from what I can see and I can´t stand surfing full-screen all the time. Especially when doing research on the Internet, modal Windows are a very efficient way to work. So this is probably the killer feature why I´m still using Opera 12.17. Is there any chance that modal Windows can come back? I don´t know if it´s limited to the Chrome engine or if you really have a chance to implement this. But I wanted to let you know that Modal Windows will make or break a browser for me. It´s all about the options, right? :-) And no, running multiple Browser instances is not a solution. Because you loose your session state when closing all the sessions or you would need to save each browser session you have opened into a separate session file and open them up all again. And you loose the flexibility. With modal Windows you can just move them around how you need them while doing your research and whenever you close the browser and open it again the next day everything´s back how you left it. I hope one of the Developers reads this and I would be very happy if modal Windows will be considered for the future. Then I´ll switch for sure. Opera 12 is getting slow especially with Java Script and we don´t get security updates anymore. So I need to swtich sooner or later. And Vivaldi looks very promising so far :-)



  • Thank you for your response. I´ll look into this, but from the first thought it might not be the same. It´s good to have all Windows combined in one, because then you can quickly ALT-TAB into a Remote Desktop Session and back to your Browser. Research goes hand in hand with other things for me most of the time. If I have multiple Browser Windows open, it gets very chaotic very quickly and you cannot arrange the Windows always the way you like within a specific frame / place on the screen or a 2nd one.

    But I´ll try this with Vivaldi and report back.



  • Oh God yes! This would be so great! +1



  • It is possible. I'm working on an extension providing this feature. Here's a very early preview of what I'm doing:

    [attachment=645]h6e5f7cd.png[/attachment]
    Attachments:


  • Moderator

    MDI. It's… beautiful..



  • OK, I promised to report back.
    The "workaround" by opening multiple instances of Vivaldi is not really a substiture for Modal Windows. Biggest culprit is the ALT-TAB behaviour.

    What widget shows looks very, very promising though! That goes in the right direction. I have no idea how much work widget had to invest to implement this and I have no idea which problems might arise when implementing this via a Plugin (Session state, window state, resizing of windows etc…). So it might not become the perfect solution. But if from official side this feature is not considered, then I´d be happy to try widgets solution out.

    As I said in my opening post: There seems to be no other Browser on the market with a support for that feature. Is it because nobody wants it? I don´t think so. But I´m sure there are a lot. And the classic Opera User is not the average Joe, right? I´m sure you will make a lot of people happy by supporting modal windows again... be it native, or via a Plugin :-)


  • Moderator

    @widget:

    It is possible. I'm working on an extension providing this feature. Here's a very early preview of what I'm doing:

    DAMN, Widget! Is there NOTHING you can't write? What a resource to have in this community! Kudos!



  • +1 I would like to see modal windows built in. The less reliance on plugins for more mainstream features the better.



  • I think you misunderstood the term. A modal window is a completely different thing:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_window

    But I think we are talking about MDI: multiple windows under a common menu bar. That's something I like to see again, too.

    And lets expand this: A browser workspace with multiple sub-windows and maybe even tabs inside those sub-windows (that's something even Opera never had), which automatically get assigned to tab groups in the main "taskbar". Add a virtual desktop feature to this (switch between four different sets of tab/sub-window arrangements on the fly) and you have a very powerful setup. Managing hundreds of open tabs in a very intuitive way.

    The point of Windows' MDI always was to not clutter your document windows with other applications, because Windows doesn't support virtual desktops. That's why MDI is needed.


  • Moderator

    @jtsn:

    (…) because Windows doesn't support virtual desktops.

    Windows 10 does.



  • @An_dz:

    @jtsn:

    (…) because Windows doesn't support virtual desktops.

    Windows 10 does.

    Indeed, and even XP did with a tiny powertoy.

    So personally, I wouldn't invest too much time for a feature easily attainable at OS level



  • @An_dz:

    Windows 10 does.

    Don't care. Never going to use it.


  • Moderator

    @RRR13:

    I like keeping my tabs in one window. MDI can do that.
    If I would want to use each website in it's own window, I would use IE6.

    Best answer, exactly my feeling.

    @jtsn:

    @An_dz:

    Windows 10 does.

    Don't care. Never going to use it.

    Me too. :D



  • Never say never.

    Win 10, aside the "square thing" (how I call the metro part of the OS) that I never touch, is a way better OS than win 7 / win8x.

    Light, fast, has finally a decent command prompt, recognizable and with a standard copy and paste, more or less like any Linux terminal emulator, it has finally "the open prompt here [as administrator]" menu (like on KDE from 1999), and has finally the scroll wheel that scrolls the inactive windows, something I loved since the time of first ,Logitech wheeled mouse (worked on win 3.11 too) and that I miss since Logitech switched from the MouseWare to Setpoint drivers.

    The start button is usable but not amazing, anyway classic shell works perfectly as always did in win 7 and 8

    It's true that most of those little improvements can be implemented with some little utilities on win 7 too, but I can reply that Firefox can be transformed in a "Quasi Opera browser" with a bunch of extensions.

    "Possible" and "ready to go" are two definitely different things, I believe the vivaldi users are well aware of this ;)

    ,



  • @The_Solutor:

    Win 10, aside the "square thing" (how I call the metro part of the OS) that I never touch, is a way better OS than win 7 / win8x.

    Windows 10 is a remote controlled botnet, which will continuously download and executes code from its command and control servers in Redmond behind your back, without any option to opt out. I don't want to have something like that on my PCs.

    So whatever it is now, it will not be the same thing two or three years ahead. You know the Windows 8 Preview had a start menu hidden by a registry setting? Maybe some nutcase has the idea to completely block desktop apps not installed from the store or whatever.



  • JTSN is right. MDI is the right term for what I mean and what Opera up to 12.x had. I should have known better :oops:

    I´m surprised that there´s so much response on this thread. I feared, by looking at all the browsers released in the last 10 years, that nobody cares about that feature. But there seem to be a small subset of browser Users who really appreciated the way Opera handled Windows / Tabs inside its own Browser Window.

    And even if the Developers don´t pick this up, I´m very happy that Widget is working on an extension which could deliver what´s holding me at Opera at the moment :-)

    Thank you very much to everyone for your responses. And I will follow Vivaldi very closely in the next months :)

    Edit: I´ve seen I can edit the title. There´s no strike through tag, so I left the Modal in and added the MDI to not confuse new readers of this topic (that I mixed up those terms) :-)



  • @The_Solutor:

    @An_dz:

    @jtsn:

    (…) because Windows doesn't support virtual desktops.

    Windows 10 does.

    Indeed, and even XP did with a tiny powertoy.

    So personally, I wouldn't invest too much time for a feature easily attainable at OS level

    I have long used virtual desktops under Windows (starting with the XP powertoy mentioned), they're useful, but I don't think they are a substitute for MDI at all. In fact I don't even "get" the relation between these two concepts, to be honest. I use virtual desktops to organize programs into broad thematic areas (e.g. I might be working and all the programs I'm actually using for work are in one desktop, while I have Spotify or an mp3 player in another so that I can quickly change tracks but it doesn't distract me from work, torrent downloads in another, etc.) On the other hand, MDI is for having multiple documents open in a single program (as the name says, really). The main advantages of MDI are uniformity (all Windows MDI apps work the same way, with the buttons to close/minimize subwindows in the same place, etc. - see for example O12, mIRC and UltraEdit) and immediateness (you have all your documents in sight and it's really easy to switch from one to another). I'm not sure how you guys propose to "emulate" MDI with virtual desktops, but it would just lose these advantages. With MDI I was just now in this tab writing this post, I saw an "(1)" in my Facebook tab, clicked the Facebook tab to check it, and then clicked the Facebook tab again to minimize it and go back to this one (thanks to "click tab to minimize" option and the LRU order default in MDI). Unsurpassed efficiency. With virtual desktops, what? I should have the Facebook tab in another desktop, then not see the (1) at all, fish for the adequate virtual desktop to check it, then fish for the tab, and then fish for the original virtual desktop again? How does this replace MDI?

    As for the OP, MDI is for me one of the most important features that make me stick with O12 - maybe the most important, together with standard menu bar and mouse gestures.


  • Moderator

    @widget:

    It is possible. I'm working on an extension providing this feature. Here's a very early preview of what I'm doing:

    [attachment=645]h6e5f7cd.png[/attachment]

    vivaldi is supporting extensions now?


  • Moderator

    It always did, unofficially. You must install it unpacked. It's hackish and some don't work correct or not at all.



  • +1 for MDI

    I was one of those who raised hell on MyOpera when they tried to remove the MDI buttons…


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