I thought Vivaldi was for power users



  • But when I tried to download keepass and its extension I was told that I needed java. Java, in the wise eyes of those making a browser for power users, who do not wish to be "protected", is prohibited.

    How can Vivaldi style itself the "power user browser" and then not allow us to use Java if we must? I know how to protect myself from Java vulnerabilities and have been doing so for ten years. Knock off the babysitting!



  • Support for npapi was dropped by chromium some time ago. This includes java, as a power user you should know this.



  • Java? Keepass is made in C# .net, and a chrome extension is most probably made in Javascript. Are you sure you're reading "Java" and not "Javascript"?


  • Moderator

    @RockinRobbins said in I thought Vivaldi was for power users:

    How can Vivaldi style itself the "power user browser" and then not allow us to use Java if we must? I know how to protect myself from Java vulnerabilities and have been doing so for ten years. Knock off the babysitting!

    Really? You're provoking… OK, lets play power user Bullshit bingo just for you!

    How can you as a power user:

    1. not know the difference between Java and JavaScript
    2. misuse the deactivation of JavaScript
    3. use strange download tools
    4. give us incomplete information about the message
    5. do not tell us from where you get the Keepass software
    6. do not tell us about your OS, Vivaldi version and yxour installed extensions

    BINGOOO!!!!!

    when I tried to download keepass and its extension I was told that I needed java.

    KeePass2 can found on its website at http://keepass.info/news/n170109_2.35.html

    But you need activated Javascript for the download of the extension chromeIPass from https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chromeipass/ompiailgknfdndiefoaoiligalphfdae

    And you need the KeepassHTTP plugin for KeePass2 from https://github.com/pfn/passifox/

    This should help you as a power user.



  • Made my day! o)



  • Those who think they know everything annoy those of us who do.


  • Moderator

    @compurandom Yes, that is the problem with self-ensigned "experts" and power users.

    I never would call myself a expert or power user for browsers. I have some knowledge (which may be sometimes faulty) and enjoy to help others with Vivaldi problems.



  • @RockinRobbins said in I thought Vivaldi was for power users:

    But when I tried to download keepass and its extension I was told that I needed java. Java, in the wise eyes of those making a browser for power users, who do not wish to be "protected", is prohibited.

    How can Vivaldi style itself the "power user browser" and then not allow us to use Java if we must? I know how to protect myself from Java vulnerabilities and have been doing so for ten years. Knock off the babysitting!



  • Look. If you are a power user, and I've been messing with Windows and Linux of many flavors for fifteen years, you know the hazards of using Java and have either quit using it or have defended yourself against the hazards in favor of the benefits.

    Vivaldi styles itself the power users' browser. I'm shocked that these condescending "power users" are wearing diapers. As a power user I will use the tools I wish. Browsers that protect me from doing so can't legitimately call themselves "power user browsers."

    Waterfox, for instance, really is a power user browser. It removes barriers and refuses to protect newbies. Vivaldi is a very promising browser, but not a power user browser. It feels the need to protect us from ourselves, the antithesis of catering to the power user.

    You guys in diapers, pretending to be power users, answer my original question. "How can Vivaldi style itself the "power user browser" and then not allow us to use Java if we must?" The answer is that it cannot.



  • @Gwen-Dragon said in I thought Vivaldi was for power users:

    @RockinRobbins said in I thought Vivaldi was for power users:

    How can Vivaldi style itself the "power user browser" and then not allow us to use Java if we must? I know how to protect myself from Java vulnerabilities and have been doing so for ten years. Knock off the babysitting!

    Really? You're provoking… OK, lets play power user Bullshit bingo just for you!

    How can you as a power user:

    1. not know the difference between Java and JavaScript
    2. misuse the deactivation of JavaScript
    3. use strange download tools
    4. give us incomplete information about the message
    5. do not tell us from where you get the Keepass software
    6. do not tell us about your OS, Vivaldi version and yxour installed extensions

    BINGOOO!!!!!

    when I tried to download keepass and its extension I was told that I needed java.

    KeePass2 can found on its website at http://keepass.info/news/n170109_2.35.html

    But you need activated Javascript for the download of the extension chromeIPass from https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chromeipass/ompiailgknfdndiefoaoiligalphfdae

    And you need the KeepassHTTP plugin for KeePass2 from https://github.com/pfn/passifox/

    This should help you as a power user.

    1. I know the difference.
    2. Didn't say anything about the deactivation of JavaScript. You can't say I misused it.
    3. What the hell? Synaptic Package Manager is strange to you but to me it's home.
    4. I don't care about the message. I care that I can't use Java in Vivaldi.
    5. The Keepass software is downloaded from the Ubuntu repository or from http://keepass.info/download.html if you're a Windows user.
    6. Both Ubuntu 16.10 and Windows 7 Professional 64-bit. I have 6GB RAM, Vivaldi 1.8.770.56 with Enhanced Steam, Fixer for Java, IETab (in Windows only), and the Camelizer extensions. I'm 5'6", brown hair and like puppies.

    None of this has anything to do with the question: How can Vivaldi call itself a power user's browser and protect us from our own desires? If it's a power user's browser, like Waterfox, it should remove barriers that are not necessary or desirable for power users. The use of Java is a user selectable option in a real power user browser.


  • Moderator

    @RockinRobbins Please complain
    ★ missing Java PPAPI plugin to Oracle at https://www.java.com/de/download/support.jsp
    See more ⇒ https://www.java.com/en/download/faq/chrome.xml

    ★ removed Java NPAPI plugin support on Chromium based broesers to Chromium devs at https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list
    See more ⇒ https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/chrome/TYbj21PkcAQ

    ★ missing Java in Vivaldi on https://vivaldi.com/bugreport/


    Thanks a lot for all your answers to make Vivaldi better, but now we cant help you with Java problems.


  • Moderator

    @RockinRobbins said in I thought Vivaldi was for power users:

    How can Vivaldi style itself the "power user browser" and then not allow us to use Java if we must?

    1. It's styling itself as "A Browser for Our Friends", not "power user browser". See: vivaldi.com
    2. It is meant to be targeted at power users as well as "average" users. That means they're trying to provide more and more features for both groups while maintaining some reasonable amount of security measures (or - as you would call it - babysitting).
    3. Creating a decent computer software takes time. Vivaldi - in terms of software development - is in its infancy (being only two years old). It takes a ridiculous amount of ignorance (but only for a real power user) to expect from a software this young to have every feature they could possibly think of - like support for some technology as dead as Java plugins.
    4. Little wonder that it's not a priority for Vivaldi developers to bring the support for a technology used by an insignificant number of people. But nobody said they wouldn't at some point if it would be reasonable enough for them to make that effort...
    5. A real power user should know (or easily find out, using their favorite web search engine) that Vivaldi is based on Chromium and that the lack of support for NPAPI (as well as many other features/bugs) is an "upstream" thing.

    BTW. As you're not asking an actual technical question nor seeking for help but rather complaining about the Vivaldi browser not meeting your (IMO high) expectations, I'm moving this topic into the general discussion about web browsers category. I hope you understand.


  • Moderator

    @pafflick: "Power user" is a largely self-defined term. In many cases it means "people who use computers or applications the way I do. People who have my particular knowledge, preferences or needs."

    If you search the definition of the term, you find that it is:

    1. Someone who requires a high-end spec computer to do their work (video or graphic editor, etc.)
    2. Someone who requires software with the largest capacity, fastest performance, and most features.
    3. An individual with advanced skills, knowledge, experience and capabilities.
    4. Someone whose computer skills are better than those of an organization's average end user.
    5. A user who needs to accomplish a large amount of work with their software.
    6. Someone who habitually overloads software or drives it beyond its designed capabilities.
    7. A person who makes heavy use of hardware, running many applications and/or doing complex work.
    8. Someone who is intimately familiar with the capabilities, options and "tricks of the trade" of the particular software they use. An expert in that software.
    9. A coder. Someone who can create or customize software based on their own knowledge and experience, not relying on options offered by the software author.
    10. A user with special administrative access.
    11. A user who has read the help files and manuals or is able to do so.

    Vivaldi's definition, when they use the term, appears to be "someone who wants a lot of features and options, and wishes to do work." I don't recall having seen a definition offered by Vivaldi or anyone else defining a power user as "One who wishes to adopt an unusually high amount of risk or take excessive chances." But, again, the term is mostly-self defined. I'm a "power user" because I make my living with the browser and care to learn about the best way I can use it. Den_po is a power user because he can re-write the UI on his own. Christoph142 is a power user because he can (and does) write his own extensions. WillyYu is a power user because he can actually refine the browser code. Others are power users because they use it for web development, high-end game-playing, or publishing.

    However it's defined, for now the browser will be at least to some degree confined in some respects to what its rendering engine and javascript engine can do. Vivaldi will obviously expand to more capabilities later.

    My 2¢.


  • Moderator

    @Ayespy You should add:

    1. A user who's not wearing diapers anymore; who has been working with computers for their entire life (which is at least fifteen years) and knows how to use some deprecated technology that nobody cares about anymore (including its owners), even if that "power user" can't tell the difference whether some software is explicitly preventing them from using something or just doesn't have the capability of doing so. Oh, and the inability of finding any replacement for that deprecated technology is apparently irrelevant...

    But that's just my opinion and I really have to go now, as I'm pretty sure that the nanny is going to kill me once she finds out that I crawled out of my baby cot in the middle of the night to use the Internets. 😁


  • Moderator

    @pafflick: Totally on-topic - I came to habitual computer use late, because my employer at the time computing first began to propagate through the small business work environment, refused to come into the modern age. We were, for instance, one of the last law firms in town to have a fax machine. So until 1996, when I escaped from the Neanderthal time warp, I did not use a PC on a daily basis. I had had a role in coding a little Applesoft for our home newspaper distribution business to do the billing, and could set the DIP switches to make our Apple IIe run different dot matrix printers, and played some Space Invaders at home - but not taken it beyond that. My wife had already introduced computers to her workplace and was typing CPM and MS DOS commands into a text interface as fast as I could type on a typewriter (about 62-65 WPM). My kids, no joke, were already coding HTML to create websites on Geocities to help promote and sell our horses and breeding services.

    I used a word processor to write a book and sent and received a few dozen pieces of email. That was about it.

    But in 1996 I quit the lawfirm for a more modern one. I think I was probably a kind of a rapid adopter. The firm was on Win 3.1 when I got there, but soon migrated to Win97, I got one of my daughters a job there as a clerical assistant, she soon became a data entry person and then the IT admin, and the rest is history. Today, my tech-maven daughter is one kind of power user, and I am a totally different kind. She can create, format and deploy computer graphics and multimedia presentations probably faster than any other human being in North America (I'm not exaggerating), can set up and roll out a website in minutes, and I can build and repair a wide variety of systems and do some low-level software debugging. My daughter relies on me for system fixes and maintenance. I can make some obsolete software run on more modern systems (with which it is "incompatible"), preserve and migrate data and settings like a demon, etc. My wife has forgotten how to do CPM and MS DOS input, and is uncomfortable with changes in her system and software, while am an early adopter of many things, and she relies on me to do breakfixes and keep her up and running. She is an accounting and bookkeeping power user on her machine. She can run circles around most accountants. But glitches with email or printing make her crazy. We are all "power users" in our own right.

    But none of us has so little class as to find fault with a company breaking ground with new software. That takes real daring, fortitude and determination, and is worthy of our respect.



  • @Ayespy said in I thought Vivaldi was for power users:

    But in 1996 I quit the lawfirm for a more modern one

    Hmmm, 1996 was a big year. You changed jobs & epochs. I was forcibly reminded of the fragility of life by the death of my mum. So long ago, yet not.

    This whole "power-user" thing... I never have understood it, in the sense of some people apparently psychologically needing to brandish it as a weapon against others, to big themselves up. Back over in the Opera blogs/fora when i joined at Opera 15, & continued with until my happy discovery of V in Feb 2015, I was frequently amused/aghast/appalled at the sheer vehemence, anger & vitriol exhibited by several repeat offenders [& some pontificating self-important newbies] there on this accursed topic. I've been relieved that on the whole, most of the time, such hostility & braggadocio has not also infected the V fora. Long may it stay that way.

    Though it might say more about my own feebleness & insecurity than the actual real world, as a rule i eschew, even disdain, people who publicly, vociferously [egotistically?] self-label as "experts", "power-users", "wizards", "gurus" et al. For my personal sensibilities, such labels should be bestowed by others in independent appraisal & recognition of someone's skills & knowledge, not be self-appointed / self-anointed.


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