A short question about pronunciation



  • Hi everyone,

    yesterday I had a little discussion with my brother about languages in general and some misunderstandings that may appear through the same pronunciation of words with different meanings.

    One thing was left unresolved so I thought that I just ask you to maybe clear it up a bit.

    Do you pronounce one's and once the same way?

    And a little add on that irritated me while writing this:
    Can somebody please explain me why pronunciation lacks the OU combination in front of the second N but pronounce has it? Is there a rule for the shortening or is this just something that "just is this way and nobody knows why" ?

    Thanks for reading and answering in advance ^^



  • One's and once are pronounced differently.


  • Moderator

    @zaibon: "One's" is like "wunz"

    Once is like "wuntce."



  • @Ayespy @g_bartsch
    Damnit .... now I need to pay for the cinema tickets and a beer this evening. ^^
    Never the less thanks for the help and the very good phonetic spelling example because I am really bad at reading the "normal" phonetic alphabet.



  • @zaibon said in A short question about pronunciation:

    cinema tickets

    What are you seeing?

    Ayespy's explanation was excellent. I confess i read your query soon after you posted, but decided not to reply, as i said to myself; "oh goodness, how would i even begin to explain the vagaries of English's multiple broken rules for spelling & vocalisation, merely using my keyboard?". AS solved it very nicely.

    All i will say though is that [& this is part of my underlying reason for previously, in separate posts, expressing such awe at so many non-native English speakers' command of English] English is a proper bugger of a language to learn, because it has sooooooo many exceptions to its "rules". That is, just as soon as you think you've understood a particular "rule" governing placement of vowels near consonants, or pronunciation of some vowels with a flat or rounded sound, etc, along comes an exception... then another... then another. It means that to become a competent English language user, one needs not only to learn all the "rules", but also all the exceptions. That's gotta be really tough to accomplish, for people who grew up with an entirely different "rulebook"!!!



  • @Steffie The movie we'll be seeing is Ghost in the Shell, years ago I read the books and I really hope they didn't screwed it up. :cold_sweat:
    And regarding the strange rules of the english language - I guess that every language has a few parts where someone can rise an eyebrow over the absurd rules. ^^



  • @Steffie English is not a complicated language, and because of that most English speakers have a hard time learning other languages. One of the advantages of English is that objects have no gender -- a major obstacle in other languages. There may be various exceptions to rules, but basic conjugation is logical and very simple.

    Of course, I'd argue mastering any language is equally hard, but if we consider the basics, English might be one of the easiest languages to learn, especially if your mother tongue has Indo-European roots.


  • Moderator

    I speak one's with a s (warm sounding s โ€“ sorry my english is rusty) at end and once with a sharp-sounding s.

    But i fear high-order Oxford English wizards may scream :scream: and tell us :school: something different about the pronunciation.



  • @Gwen-Dragon -- Well, fwiw, i continue to feel, even if i'm just naive, that's it's simply wonderful that here we all are, communicating so freely & effectively. Yay.



  • @luetage said in A short question about pronunciation:

    ...most English speakers have a hard time learning other languages. One of the advantages of English is that objects have no gender -- a major obstacle in other languages...

    Just because of my reading of your writings, I have a great impression of your ability to work with written words. Not that I have credentials formally authorized to judge this. It's kind of a sixth sense. And I think that works.

    For you affirm the content you expressed regarding comparisons between English and other languages, I ask, if permitted, how many languages beyond English you have knowledge?

    It's just a friendly question. Just curiosity. If the reason for the question does not encourage you to respond, patience!


  • Moderator

    I'd also like to add to what @luetage said, that compared to some other languages, English seems to be quite simple actually. And it's also relatively easy to learn English because it's practically everywhere. You can hear and read it every day, it's used worldwide and thus people are often forced to learn it. But isn't that hard if you are to use it from time to time.

    That's how it was in my case. I've been learning English in the 1st grade of the Elementary School, but since the 2nd grade (after moving to another town) I've been learning the German language only for the next 8 years. In high school, we were attending two language classes - "Advanced" German & "Basic" English. This added up to 5 years of learning English vs. 12 years of learning German. And still, I've chosen English for the final exam and passed it. That's because I was already surrounded by English at that time and it was easy for me to learn it. I wouldn't ever make it with my poor Deutsch, though... ๐Ÿ˜

    At that time I wasn't really motivated to actually learn German, as I didn't see any use for it in my life. Now that I'm a grown up (at least physically), I've changed my mind about a lot of things and now I am motivated enough to pick up that education. Now, if I only had the time... ๐Ÿ™„



  • @pafflick said in A short question about pronunciation:

    That's because I was already surrounded by English at that time and it was easy for me to learn it. I wouldn't ever make it with my poor Deutsch, though... ๐Ÿ˜

    In view of the above, my astonishment at your statement that you are a "non-native" is reduced. The domain was achieved with considerable effort and dedication.

    But, but, let's see if I gain the courage: .......................................

    Would I commit sacrilege if I asked you what your mother tongue is?
    If sacrilege, I abdicate the answer.

    Note: I thought the "mother" would be German itself.



  • @luetage

    @Quinca71 said in A short question about pronunciation:

    For you affirm the content you expressed regarding comparisons between English and other languages, I ask, if permitted, how many languages beyond English you have knowledge?

    After re read more twice, it was when I have cogitated that the intention of my asking could be received as provoker, defiant.
    But, it is not. I was waiting for an answer that would let me know there would something like 3, at least, beyond the English. Due my impression on your performance in general. And it would not be just knowledge, but, also, performance, capacity of reading, writing and, maybe in some, a live talking and listening.
    I was waiting, too, pass the period of conflicting reactions from you to me and vice-versa, for say what I am saying now.
    Did I get it right?


  • Moderator

    @Quinca71 said in A short question about pronunciation:

    Would I commit sacrilege if I asked you what your mother tongue is?

    Why? It's not a secret. ๐Ÿ˜‰ You could've just found out - by visiting my profile here - that the only "local forum" that I regularly participate in is this one. ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    @Quinca71 said in A short question about pronunciation:

    I was waiting, too, pass the period of conflicting reactions from you to me and vice-versa, for say what I am saying now.

    I wonder what you have in mind. ๐Ÿค” I hope you were not offended by the Yoda joke? At least, you never said you were... I can't recall any other moment when you and I were disputing over something here.



  • @pafflick said in A short question about pronunciation:

    I can't recall any other moment when you and I were disputing over something here.

    You quoted an excerpt addressed to another, which absolutely could not be applied to our relationship. Stay totally tranquil! You are a master to expose your writings. You are a gentleman at the best sense and at all proofing. "Yoda" was and still is a funny diversion to me. So much that I have adopted the nickname Yoda for nominate my writing style (only when written in English), since you put the subject in front of me.

    I have the impression that may exist susceptibilities respecting persons we can neither imagine. When I suspect, even randomly, one susceptibility in a interlocutor, I apply my precautions, asking before do something. It is as people say hereby: "asking does not offend". So my previous asking about the mother-language.



  • The real context theme here is pronunciation in English. However, a language has other aspects.

    These other aspects are: writing, reading (silently and uttering audibly), listening and speaking. Writing and reading silently would, strictly speaking, be outside the subject pronunciation.

    But as of the sixth post, the scope of the subject has been expanding, I beg leave to stick my clumsy spoon into the refined delicacy.

    As for writing, English is highly complex, not conducive to foreign students. First, English uses excessive consonants in proportion to the vowels. In addition, there are often double consonants with no other function than to occupy space and hamper. I'm not aware of the reasons for this use, but it seems to me that most of these duplication have random reasons.

    If I were speaking about my language, I would have known that long ago, etymology was the cause of this duplication. Nowadays, an orthographic reform of a long time ago canceled this use, that is, the use of etymological or historical dual consonants without functions of pronunciation. There are no double consonants without pronunciation functions in my language.

    In addition, there is a greater balance between the number of consonants and vowels, in each word, as in Latin itself, and which was inherited by the neo-Latins. (French, not so much, mainly in the aspect of consonants and vowels not pronounced.)

    Therefore, IMO and sorry for probable feelings, but a sincere and frank opinion in first place, my mother-language is much easier and rational than English in this detail.


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