Tab Size / Scrolling
I'm using Vivaldi - a few days now, intensively, it's pretty terrific. Like Opera used to be before suddenly turned into anti-Opera.
The only problem is tab size. Too many tabs - and they shrink until it's almost impossible to hit the tab and not the "close tab" "x", which, of course, does NOT shrink.
What I'd love is the option to set a minimum tab size - and if there are too many to fit on the screen at that size, they'd scroll, a la Firefox. I don't love tab grouping (although I do like the idea of having the option). I can find work-arounds, but it would be nicer to have a setting. Other people seem to hae the same issue - why not introduce the option?
Thanks for your brilliant work!
I believe I added this actually (https://forum.vivaldi.net/post/129574)
I don't understand why people are so opposed to this. No one is saying that this should be the only option or even the default option. We just want it to be an option. It seems like a lot of posts on this devolve into something like "You have too many tabs open, Chromium based browsers aren't good for a lot of tabs, don't have that many tabs." or "Fix your work flow and or use stacks." all of these arguments really irritate me. For the first one if I have the CPU and RAM to run a lot of tabs why can't I? So what if its a resource hog? I'm a power user, I have a powerful computer. On the second argument just like what? Like this argument does not provide any reasoning for why this feature can't be added. And why should I have to adapt my workflow to a web browser when other web browsers have this feature? No I'm not going to move to the other browser. No I am not saying the other browser is better. No I am not saying you are wrong for not liking and not wanting to use this feature. But its just an option, if you don't like it don't use it.
To combat both of those arguments further. This isn't even necessarily a problem with having a lot of tabs. If I have a window open with 20 tabs on my 14" class 1080p display it looks like this:
All of the titles can still be read enough I would say to distinguish them.
Now I want to split my screen so I can have another app on the right. (The app is arbitrary so I didn't include one) So I snap it to the left half and I get this:
No more titles whatsoever. Now you could argue that this is unfair because I used start pages to fill out the twenty tabs and real pages would have different favicons but I would say that couldn't be farther from the truth. It is very possible for me to have multiple Stackoverflow pages, or Google pages, or Wikipedia pages, or really any large website that will all have the same icon. I think this is a very realistic use case for this feature that is not rebutted by the argument of too many tabs.
I don't even really get why feature requests in general get down voted, like mine appears to have. Isn't this supposed to be a highly customizable, feature rich browser? It's just another option, enable it if you want it, disable it if you don't. I don't like my tabs on the sides or bottom but that's still a feature and I'm not getting my panties in a bunch about it.
Sorry for turning that into a rant. I've been looking into this for a while now and had a lot of built up frustrations with the community and developers in Vivaldi, Chrome, and Chromium.
I don't even really get why feature requests in general get down voted, like mine appears to have.
That's how Democracy works. The majority get to decide what's most popular. Usually, downvotes are due to attitude, but that's not the reason why anyone would have downvoted your Feature Request. That might happen if you demand that something is added at once, else you're ditching Vivaldi.
Some others might downvote an issue because they think it's a bad solution to the problem of having many tabs open.
Others might downvote just out of spite.
If a feature is popular it will get a lot of upvotes and therefore is more likely to get the attention it deserves.
@Pesala I understand all of that, I'm just frustrated I guess.
@WombatPete Till this is addressed by the devs you can do several things to make your life easier.
Thank you, I'll try Tree Tabs and I may give the other settings a shot, too - I'm still worried that with double-clicks I'll find myself unintentionally closing tabs, but we'll see.
(As for Vivaldi Hooks, I think that, if I were to go that route, multiple windows might be a better solution.)
I have to say PoLoMoTo seems to make perfect sense to me.
The notion that it would be downvoted because someone thinks it's not the right
solution to the problem of too many tabs... wait, the problem of too many tabs?
I want a lot of tabs. That's how I work. That doesn't require a solutio, because it isn't a problem - it's the opposite of a problem. It's a good thing, a luxury, a useful attribute for a browser, something I want. There's no such thing as "the problem of too many tabs." There is such a thing as "a problem handling a larger number of tabs."
If I'm making a browser, I'm looking to design it to do lots of things. I'd be surprised at anyone who thought it was appropriate to try to redesign the users instead of trying to make something that works for them better.
@luetage So far - yes, you were absolutely right: the double-click-to-close approach does work surprisingly well. Not as nice as the FF scrolling line of tabs, but it's unquestionably far less problematic than it was (and it's not as if I'm going back to FF from V). Next up, a test-drive of Tree Tabs!
It seems like a lot of posts on this devolve into something like "You have too many tabs open, Chromium based browsers aren't good for a lot of tabs, don't have that many tabs." or "Fix your work flow and or use stacks." all of these arguments really irritate me.
"Answers" that lecture the asker telling them that they're wrong instead of actually answering the question are something that I'm always trying to fight against (even if I agree with them). Unless someone is actually wrong - but if it's just a matter of a different preferences/workflow/habits, then I find it inappropriate to tell the OP that they should change something about it (even if their preference is completely wrong for me) instead of focusing on how to actually solve the problem.
In this case, I'm not on "your side", as I don't like to have too many tabs opened, therefore I do agree with the quoted statements in general. But seeing them in a reply to your post where you ask for a feature that would help you handle this many tabs would probably irritate me as much as it irritated you.
I spend some time here, trying to help other people to solve various issues that they're dealing with and sometimes I come across people that use the browser in a weird/unusual/wrong (in my opinion) way. But as long as it's not the actual source of the problem, I'll do whatever I can to help them to solve the issue so that they could keep using the browser in their weird/unusual/wrong (in my opinion) way.
Sometimes, when I feel that they might not know about some feature - even if I don't have the answer (or after providing it first) - I may say to them something like: "Hey, there's another - IMO - better way to do that. Maybe you should give it a try?" But I always emphasize the fact, that it's just a suggestion so that it's never an answer like: "get your workflow together, kid".
I don't even really get why feature requests in general get down voted, like mine appears to have.
That's something that I've been trying to figure out recently as well. Obviously, my post here is rather off topic, but I don't want to make it even worse in this regard, so if you're interested, I've expressed my thoughts on this problem here.
Sorry for turning that into a rant.
I don't see your post as a rant. You provided a lot of reasonable arguments followed by a logical thinking. That's always very much appreciated in any discussion. And as much as I don't like the idea of scrolling tabs horizontally (actually, I don't like vertical scrolling in general) I would never vote against it if there's only an option to not use it if I don't want to. Whatever the (optional) feature that may attract more users to Vivaldi - I'm all for it. 😃
The only thing that I wanted to "lecture" you about is that you should not worry about other people's opinion about your preferences, workflow or habits. If your request for a feature is reasonable, there's a good chance that it will be added at some point. You just need to be patient. Vivaldi developers are a small team and they have plenty of work to do. But what makes Vivaldi different from other companies is their attitude. Let me just paste here some quotes from various interviews with the Vivaldi's CEO, Jon von Tetzchner:
We believe that people are different and they have different preferences. We put in features because people want them to be there. We don't need all the users to ask for something for us to add it in. If one user asks for it and it is something reasonable to do, then we will put it in. That's the basic rule.
We get a lot of requests, but we cannot do them all at once. But we believe every user should be respected and if there is a requirement we do it. (...)
We listen to the feedback that we get. We change the browser based on the requirement of the user. Our motto is "when in doubt, make it an option."
WebdesignerDepot: The big interview: Jon von Tetzchner talks Vivaldi
(...) we see every user as being different, and we see their requirements, and their requirements differ. It’s our job to adapt to your requirements, so whatever your requirements are. (...)
We’re not a single-feature browser. Our approach is singular. It’s really about every single user and acknowledging that we’re all different. We all have different requirements, and they’re all equally valuable.
We believe that we are all different, and we have different requirements and adapting to those requirements is what we should do in software. We all have the same rights to be heard, and our decision-making is based on feedback. We don’t monitor people’s computer, but rather they tell us what they want. (...)
The principle being we are building a browser for our friends, we’ll listen to people, we’ll add whatever they ask us to do, and then we innovate.
@pafflick Thanks for the support, I agree with everything you said. At least I'm not alone in my thinking lol
On being patient I decided to just try to mod it in myself, if nothing else it'll help entertain me until it's added.
And I had actually read your post on the downvoting and that is definitely exactly what happens, I just wish I could edit my post to clarify but posts are edit locked after one hour.