Why is Vivaldi so much more sensible than Chrome?

  • It's much more intuitive, so much better thought-through and generally comes across much more sensible?

  • Moderator

    Because Vivaldi gets features users wants.
    Vivaldi is a browser for Friends.
    Chrome is a browser for Google.

  • You've made a few assumptions (i.e. it's more intuitive and it's better thought-through coming across as more sensible). These assumptions are really based upon your own experience rather than being universal, it seems to me; otherwise Vivaldi's user base would have grown much larger than it has. That's not to say that it is a bad browser but like Opera of old, it is a browser that appears to appeal to a certain niche beyond which it seems to have very little appeal. Suites were popular in the 90's and largely lost popularity with the dissolution of Netscape. Today I would venture to say that most people online are using mobile devices (phones, tablets) as a result of which, email clients are fast becoming a thing of the past. Webmail is much more popular today along with other forms of communication; it just "is" what it "is". Having a built-in email client while desirable for some is by and large not what most want. Hence, Vivaldi would be seen as a throwback and therefore not "more sensible" to many. If I were to make a prediction, I would say that Vivaldi will never capture more than 2% of the market share and my guess is that the percentage will be under that figure. I see Edge rising in user share as more adopt the new Windows platform and more extensions are made available. Google Chrome has a strangle-hold on the market and one that will likely not be broken. Firefox, Safari, Internet Explorer (yes, even IE) will remain in low double digits) and then there are the "other" browsers that are more oddities than anything else.

  • Moderator

    @Joel90 - It's intended and designed to appeal to a niche. There are already plenty of "everyman" browsers in the market, but not a single one other than Vivaldi which does what I personally want.

  • @Ayespy -- i do hope you're proud of me. I have stoically resisted the temptation to critique your "everyman", indeed i decided not to even mention it. Oh, wait... 👧🏻

  • Moderator

    @Steffie: As "everyman" contains the pejorative connotation of bland and monotone uniformity, I knew you wouldn't want me to include everyone (including yourself) in it... 👽

  • My sister is a casual user who would otherwise use Chrome, but uses Vivaldi on her laptop instead. She's like every other user, but seems to just like using Vivaldi for some reason, so I guess even the most everyday person can use Vivaldi.

  • @Ayespy said in Why is Vivaldi so much more sensible than Chrome?:

    @Joel90 - It's intended and designed to appeal to a niche. There are already plenty of "everyman" browsers in the market, but not a single one other than Vivaldi which does what I personally want.

    I understand what you are saying. The point I would make is that "niche" doesn't pay the bills and in order to continue development of such an involved project, money is needed. Now, it could be that charging for the browser's use would help defray some of the cost but in the long run advertising is needed. The issue is convincing investors that a browser which appeals to a niche rather than "everyman" is one that would be lucrative and I don't see that happening given the fact that most users today use mobile devices and slimmed-down browsers with extensions as opposed to suites with everything built-in. It really boils down to money as do most things. So in that regard, I would argue that Vivaldi is not as sensible as Chrome or Firefox or Edge or Safari.

  • Moderator

    @Joel90 - Jon's calculus is that it will pay the bills with less than a 1% share. That it not LOSE money is enough for him at this time. He can expand the appeal later, once he has created the browser that he, personally (and a few million displaced OldOpera users) has so been missing since Opea ASA abandoned features and targeted the masses with the new and "improved" Opera 15.

  • @Ayespy @Joel90

    Someone need to pay the bills, very valid point. I am really happy of the direction Vivaldi is going. As a IT / Business consultant, my company spend some money every years different type of software subscriptions or license fees. As a contractor for a large range of different clients I am more than happy to pay for my software use as long as it gives me something back. Free is good, but someone need to pay the bills. I am not asking for an invoice from Vivaldi - on the other hand there is nothing like a free lunch.

    If the options are adverts or subscription. Happy to pay.

  • This is what I really don't understand; why does having a lot of features make it a niche browser? Surely having a browser that can be customised to each user's needs would make it a browser for everybody, as opposed to a browser like Chrome which is only a browser for people who like the way Chrome works? Vivaldi is the only browser that isn't niche!

    I would say even if Chrome's UI truly works for you and it does everything you want it to, surely you may as well be using Vivaldi still because you can get Vivaldi to behave just like Chrome if that's what you really want. Why wouldn't you? Then at least the customisation is there if you change your mind, even if you didn't really care that much it's only a couple of minutes to install. It truly is for everyone. (the only valid counter argument I've heard was from someone who heavily uses synch, and that's fair enough I guess but I would consider that a minority).

    Yet for some reason it's really difficult to persuade people, and believe me I've tried (it was the same in the old Opera days when I would try to persuade people to use Opera). Ironically it's the people who claim not to care about browser choice who are the most stubborn! I've even offered to install it for people, and I find the next day they're back using Chrome - and the only response I get is a half-hearted "I don't really care". Well clearly they care enough to ignore someone's advice, and don't get me wrong that's fine if they have their reasons but they don't seem to have any. If they really had no opinion on the matter surely they would just use what was put in front of them. So I can't begin to understand why the masses aren't jumping on Vivaldi, there must be some barrier I can't see...

  • @ALongTime
    All browsers are good, they do their true job, as tool to browse the net. Even text browser is good, like w3m, it also do its true job.

    For people who just want to browse, that all they need. They don't bother to even think browser hopping if one they currently use... work.

    Mozilla said Firefox 60%~70% user doesn't use extensions. I believe them, my sister one example, she just "user" armed with mouse.
    The one who cried louder recently were those extensions user.

    For Firefox Old, extensions are its strength & also its downfall. Many top list extensions like Ads blocker or Password Manager just practically stomp Firefox to its knee in resource use.
    People mad about it, Firefox decide to fix it (Australis and or Web Extension), other side of people mad about it.

    Is see you pass the days to convert others to Old Opera. 😁
    Been there Done that.
    I tried to convert my sister back then. 1 year later, the first site she try in Opera Old (French HSBC bank), doesn't work. 🤣 Back to Firefox.
    In office she use IE 5~6, doesn't bother to listen my comments about those versions.

  • Moderator

    @ALongTime: IMNSHO - It's not having features that makes it a niche browser. It's having features that makes it able to CREATE a niche for itself. Otherwise, it would fail altogether. What makes it only a niche browser is the market dominance of otherwise monopolistic forces. And most people, even if they grew up with computers, don't really understand them. They develop habit patterns and stick to them, because nothing blows up when they do things the way they are used to.

    So Vivaldi (or formerly Opera) offers something they are not used to, including the many benefits that somewhat more picky or advanced users want, but it's NOT WHAT THEY ARE USED TO. And in an environment where they are never fully sure of themselves, most people are a bit terrified to change what they are used to - plus they don't know how to break habits. So you offer them something different (even something better) and they say "I don't really care..." and to finish that sentence, what they really mean is "I don't really care enough to explore something new that I might have to figure out, and that might change the way I'm doing things, because the way I'm doing things now doesn't make me think and at least doesn't blow up on me, so I'm not going to take the chance of facing any discomfort." That's what they really mean.

    People hate change - especially if it's change in an environment where they already have a subtle base level of unease - like computers. You have to have a high level of demand for improvement to get outside your comfort zone, which is why only a minority of people are even willing to look at a minority browser that they haven't already been using forever.

  • @Ayespy Fair points there. I've got to admit my post came across as a bit more of a rant than I had thought...

    Ideally, the way I can't help seeing it, is a novice user should be an aspiring power user - if you use a computer every day, this reasoning goes, it's in your interest to become 'better' at it - but maybe my judgement is too clouded by that ideal and I make the assumption that that's how people automatically think.

    I think the trend towards 'simpler' software that (in a sense) hides its workings from users has meant that there hasn't been the opportunity to learn and get better, and that's created this other mindset. It also means that people who've used a computer for 10+ years aren't automatically an expert in it like they might've been 20-30 years ago. But you don't have to be an expert to use Vivaldi and benefit from it, just open to change, and that's what's hard.

  • Moderator

    @ALongTime: Right. Think automatic transmission versus manual transmission. How many lifetime drivers can drive a stick nowadays? And how many lifetime drivers can work on their own cars, or are comfortable and comprehending when they open the hood?

  • @Ayespy Where I'm from most people still drive a manual but I fully get your point. Although an automatic in the vast majority of driving situations can get you from A to B just as well as a manual so it's no big deal what people drive as far as I'm concerned, but as a software power user you can really save a lot of time and effort (which people don't realise) - so I think it's good to at least try to encourage people out of the rut of what they're used to.

  • Because change is the only constant. I am already excited to be using vivaldi now after years of using chrome.


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