Best browser of the year 2015



  • Very innovative to include mail client within the browser where as other browsers concentrate more on cloud.. i think Vivaldi doing the best and is going to be a trend setter for other browsers.. well done !!..



  • I agree! The future is bright! Vivaldi is the future!



  • Trendsetter like original Opera was :)

    Looking great for future indeed, if they keep adding features and making the browser even better it's definitely going to stay for long time, power users have been looking forward to Opera 12 replacer for LONG.



  • I don't see it as a trend-setter. No other browser is going to follow this "trend" as you put it by including a suite with a mail client. That's not innovative. It's what was done in the 1990's and early 2000's and has been abandoned by other major browser makers. What Vivaldi does is give hope to the former Presto users who want a return to a browser suite as near to Presto as possible. I understand this and I applaud their effort. But to think that it will cause more than a very small ripple among users is dreaming. Other than a small group of power users, Opera never commanded more than 2-3% of the user base and returning to that formula (i.e. making a browser that duplicates Opera Presto as closely as possible) is only going to be of interest to a small part of the original Opera group, others having moved on to Opera Blink and Chrome/Firefox/Maxthon/etc. Furthermore, the hardcore Opera users have proven to be a very tough group to please so Jon has a very rough road ahead. Frankly… I would be surprised to see Vivaldi become a "trend setter" as you put it.



  • @Pavil82:

    I don't see it as a trend-setter. No other browser is going to follow this "trend" as you put it by including a suite with a mail client. That's not innovative. It's what was done in the 1990's and early 2000's and has been abandoned by other major browser makers. What Vivaldi does is give hope to the former Presto users who want a return to a browser suite as near to Presto as possible. I understand this and I applaud their effort. But to think that it will cause more than a very small ripple among users is dreaming. Other than a small group of power users, Opera never commanded more than 2-3% of the user base and returning to that formula (i.e. making a browser that duplicates Opera Presto as closely as possible) is only going to be of interest to a small part of the original Opera group, others having moved on to Opera Blink and Chrome/Firefox/Maxthon/etc. Furthermore, the hardcore Opera users have proven to be a very tough group to please so Jon has a very rough road ahead. Frankly… I would be surprised to see Vivaldi become a "trend setter" as you put it.

    .

    Opera created several things which other browsers took and used, in that regard it was innovative.

    Also, the reason why Opera never gained market share was not because the browser features where bad, it was because it Presto had problems and developers never coded for it or followed web standards, then in the last years it was because it had no addon supports or basically no addons at all.

    Both of this things are not true for Vivaldi. Chromium works with every website and it will have addons.

    You are also underestimating power users. What is a power user? Anyone was a newbie someday and most people that will use the Internet all day offend become a power user eventually. Kids today are power users already, they grew up with computers and they want more, they don't want stupid simplistic interfaces, they are geeks. The trend is that more and more people are becoming geeks and this is normal in a era of computing. People that are not aware how to use computers are a dying generation. So the future belongs to power users. Also, power users set the trend. Newbie users don't care what browser they run, its what ever the geek at home installed for them and suggested them. People go and ask geeks what is the best browser, what is the best antivirus, and they use that. You always go and ask the expert in a field what suggestions he has.

    Also, when all browsers are the same in terms of speed and performance they will need to differentiate themselves. I said this years ago, eventually all browsers will perform just as fast and just as stable and then what? They will start to compete in features, and Microsoft is already doing this, with Spartan. You see, the world is changing again, speed and performance is there, you can't do it anymore faster than other browsers in the next years, the human eye can't notice the difference anymore. So you need to start adding features, features which set you apart from competition.

    Even if what you say is true, and this remains a trend only for a small powers user base remaining from Opera 12, that is still a coupe of millions users, if anything Vivaldi will be greater than Opera 12 because its not running with Presto and it has also addons. And since its not Google, (which some people seem to dislike about Chrome) it puts them even in a better position. Why exactly would someone not choose Vivaldi over another browser?

    Firefox users are not happy with the latest changes. Opera users are certainly not happy and IE users are not happy either with what they are stuck with, Chrome users seems to be happy, but there is a big part of this world that does want to be part of Google even if they like Chrome. And then we also have people that actually dislike Chrome and the only reason is actually the UI or browser, not the rendering engine.

    As far as I see it, Vivaldi has an amazing great future ahead, and it already started with positive feedback.

    Also, you seem to be forgetting the little secret sauce. Vivaldi will be powered by nordic ancient forces, some say probably alien technologies but we don't know yet, all we know is that some spirit is behind the new browser and he wants us to use it. B)

    We can't surely not deny them that.



  • My take is simply this: we do not know why Opera Presto never found a larger market share so that is all speculation. What we DO know is that it was never popular among users worldwide. I fully agree that Opera was (and hopefully remains) an innovative company and that many other browsers grabbed key features but that never translated into itself becoming popular and I honestly don't see that happening here. Time has moved on from the days of the browser suite. Most people today outside the small hardcore Opera Presto crowd, do not want a suite, particularly one saddled with a mail client. Webmail is much more popular and the choice of most today, even among many businesses. Young people seldom send emails and have opted instead to communicate via texting, snap chatting, instagram and of course via Facebook. And really, it's the same story in regards to bookmarking, most choosing to opt for speed dials to hold the most visited (a dozen or so) sites and letting the search engine and history do the rest. Having a book manager that is capable of holding tens of thousands of bookmarks (most of which are forgotten and/or irrelevant and dead over time) is only cared about by this smaller core of users. The real trend today is towards a more bare-bones browser, hence Microsoft's new Spartan browser which will come with its own ability to use extensions but remain essentially a stripped-down browser. This is what the majority wants.

    Look, I'm not dissing Vivaldi's attempts to re-create Opera Presto. I was an Opera Presto user myself for many years. I'm saying, however, that realistically it will never be a trend-setter and will in all probability not achieve more than 2% market share.
    In my estimation, this is a much more realistic prognosis than the other.



  • I agree, Vivaldi has basically unlimited potential to be a great product/browser. To me it's huge that the company seems very open and receptive to user and community feedback in basically creating a browser with the features we want and a browser will want to use. They are a good path so far and hope nothing but the best. I already dropped Google Chrome and have been using Vivaldi as my default. I look forward to future releases and the new features and fine tuning however so far I have no major complaints.



  • But you keep talking about the email client and while I may never use it you are forgetting all extras.

    Its not about bundling crap to a browser, its adding things you actually use like having a visible zoom bar in the status, even the idiots at Google noticed that its actually useful because people actually use the zoom on laptops and other smaller screens while reading, so they added a zoom icon in the url bar. You see? They are adding similar things Opera 12 had years ago.

    You don't need to be very clever to understand what things some people may find useful. The browser is the new operating systems and it should allow customizations like a operating systems allow.

    And actually we know why Opera never was popular and I told you so in another post, everyone agrees it was because Presto had problems with some websites, and this was the main reason. Ask anyone that tried Opera in the past why they switched and they will tell you they had a problem with their banking website or some other.



  • @terere:

    And actually we know why Opera never was popular and I told you so in another post, everyone agrees it was because Presto had problems with some websites, and this was the main reason. Ask anyone that tried Opera in the past why they switched and they will tell you they had a problem with their banking website or some other.

    Actually we do NOT know why Opera was unpopular. All you have stated is opinion and unsupported by any hard evidence. In short, your opinion is no better nor worse than my own. And yes… I am talking about a bundled email client which is obviously NOT wanted by the majority of users. If that were not the case there would be far more clamor for Chrome, Safari, IE and Firefox to bundle an email client OR we would see a huge jump in the number of Seamonkey users since it also bundles an email client but the fact is, we do not see either. And all the other features you've mentioned have been pretty much duplicated with extensions. Granted, hard-core Opera users want their browser to come complete but that is not how most users want their browsers. They want lean, mean, bare-bones browsers that they can add to via extensions "if they so choose." You say you don't need to be very clever to know what people want but the truth is, Opera has never been able to figure that out OR their numbers would show otherwise. And you can't explain it all away on poor marketing which is yet another excuse hardcore Operas dredge up to explain the lack of interest in Presto Opera.

    Bottom line: Vivaldi will attempt to duplicate Presto Opera as closely as possible and perhaps add some as yet unknown features but in all probability this will only appeal to an exceedingly small user base. Opera Presto was the browser of choice of power-user geeks but never of the average Joe. The average Joe who makes up the vast majority of users, will continue with Chrome, IE and Firefox... end of story.



  • Great work guys. Can't wait for the final release!



  • I really hope that Vivaldi tries to become the next browser for the power users, but of course without compromising the usability. I've tried multiple "Opera replacement" browsers and none of them feel polished like opera did. Vivaldi also has some work in that aspect. For example the current tab stacking implementation is poor. Though can't complain too much because it exists and current version of the browser is Tech Preview.

    Best part of Presto was that you could customize about everything. Menus, buttons, shortcuts, and those pesky bundled software like email, torrent or IRC client. But the problem lies in that it wasn't easy to disable some of them.

    I used presto Opera as a base which I then customized to the users needs. I can do the same with any other browser that supports plugins(and has decent collection of them), but the plugins made by different people look totally different and sometimes have features you really don't want to have, but at times there is no alternative. With old Opera I could make really clean looking browser with all necessary things easily available. Also don't think right click menus are customizable in any of the popular browsers.

    Still about 4 years ago, almost everyone I knew used Opera. Some of them because I had recommended it and some because I had set it up for them. It's incredible how they miss the in-browser email client now, the difficult part is just setting it up.



  • Pavil82 with that mind I could say exactly the same about what you said:

    They want lean, mean, bare-bones browsers that they can add to via extensions "if they so choose."

    And I can say exactly the same, how do you know that? You don't.

    Of course it was my personal opinion, but it was also because I asked some people that tried Opera a few years back, and they all told me, I had to switch because example.com was not working for me, otherwise I liked the browser. The main problem Opera had was websites not working or some other issue/bug, it was not because it had features. You are saying people never adopted Opera because it had features, and that is ridiculous. If you don't need a feature you don't use it, its like saying I don't want this car because it has to many features. In Opera you where not forced to use something if you don't like it. You had the option to turn it off.

    If you are talking about gimmick features, I agree, if you are talking about things that will make it slower or just be bloat, I agree, people don't like that and Opera had some of those as well in the last years, but in general it had plenty of features which you could turn off and on and some of them where truly unique, once you started to use them, you could not live without them.

    There is absolutely no reason why someone would not choose a browser because it has useful features, even if you don't like them, you just turn them off. There a browsers which have several things which I don't like either and the problem is I have no option. With Opera you had one, if you never liked something, you could turn it off.



  • @terere:

    Pavil82 with that mind I could say exactly the same about what you said:

    They want lean, mean, bare-bones browsers that they can add to via extensions "if they so choose."

    And I can say exactly the same, how do you know that? You don't.

    .

    Now how do I know this? Hmmm… How indeed? Well, in general numbers tell the story and for the 17 years that Opera was a suite, it never rose above 3% in terms of popularity. However, in the short time both Chrome and Firefox (standalone browsers) have been in existence, both have risen sharply to challenge IE. When Netscape bit the dust, the Mozilla suite was born. Soon it too was forked into Firebird (later Firefox) and a very small group who begged to keep the suite alive eventually naming it Seamonkey. Today less than 1% of users bother with Seamonkey for the simple reason that it's viewed as an antiquated suite.

    Vivaldi is a bold endeavor but ultimately it will not only NOT set any trends but will fail for several reasons, not the least of which is its attempts to recreate Opera Presto. It's too late to the party. It's too antiquated in concept. Outside of an exceedingly small (but extremely loyal and hyper critical) group, it will attract little interest outside of the disaffected Opera Presto users. Sadly Jon wants to recreate something and I understand this and wish him well but the reality is... those days are over. In a few months we're going to have a browser (Spartan) complete with Cortana and linked intimately with our phones, our devices, our laptops and desktops and even our Xboxes. We'll be able to speak to our browsers for crying out loud. And yet Jon is wanting an older suite-type design? Hey... here' s a thought. Why not dig up Netscape 8? It had a compatibility mode whereby you could dump the Gecko engine and use the Trident engine. And evidently the Trident rendering engine would automatically pick up the latest version of IE on one's computer... hence one could use a browser born in 2007 (8 years old for goodness sake) and yet be on Windows 8 and have it pick up IE11. Ha! There you go... a suite with the latest Trident engine. Well.. that's the theory anyway. Not sure about the viability and frankly, I didn't like NS 8 anyway.

    Back to the issue at hand. It's 2015 not 1999. Numbers, as I already mentioned, speak volumes and the suite is d-e-a-d for the vast majority of users. The very small niche group that will gravitate to Vivaldi cannot possibly sustain it over the long haul. Sorry. That's my opinion and I think it's based on pretty solid evidence.



  • Unfortunately, the browser doesn't exist that can block all the crap that people write on forums. That would be :evil:

    For me, the built-in email client is one of the top reasons to still be using Opera 12.17, but it's not the main one. If Vivaldi had all of the keyboard and mouse gesture customisation that Opera has, plus a decent choice of skins, I would probably switch even before the email client was ready. I am OK with running two browsers — one for email and one for browsing. Obviously, one that does it all would be better.



  • @Pavil82:

    @terere:

    Pavil82 with that mind I could say exactly the same about what you said:

    They want lean, mean, bare-bones browsers that they can add to via extensions "if they so choose."

    And I can say exactly the same, how do you know that? You don't.

    .

    Now how do I know this? Hmmm… How indeed? Well, in general numbers tell the story and for the 17 years that Opera was a suite, it never rose above 3% in terms of popularity. However, in the short time both Chrome and Firefox (standalone browsers) have been in existence, both have risen sharply to challenge IE. When Netscape bit the dust, the Mozilla suite was born. Soon it too was forked into Firebird (later Firefox) and a very small group who begged to keep the suite alive eventually naming it Seamonkey. Today less than 1% of users bother with Seamonkey for the simple reason that it's viewed as an antiquated suite. ...

    How can you be sure that the rise of Chrome and Firefox was simply because neither was a suite? A long time ago, I adopted Opera because of word-of-mouth, but never used its mail, RSS, or a number of other features. I know quite a few others who adopted Chrome or FF, but never did any of them ever state it had anything to do with whether or not they were suites. Any browser can have simplistic interfaces, beneath which lurk numerous optional features/settings (or not)… so neither is it just a simple out-of-box interface that draws them.

    Based on what I've heard directly from Chrome or FF users, almost without exception, they said they adopted those browsers because they saw them "pushed" or touted as 'recommended' on nearly every site they visited, and they were increasingly dissatisfied with the browser that came default on their system (IE). Later on, when browsers like Chrome and FF were offered on many new systems, these users chose them and stuck with them, in most cases because they simply "worked" and worked fast. Opera never seemed to obtain or even seek such traction in the marketplace. Even after 10 or more years, most users I know have never even heard of Opera, but they've all heard of Firefox or Chrome (or even Netscape, earlier on). You can claim the rise of those browsers had nothing to do with marketing and placement, but I firmly believe reality rests on the opposite side.

    Now we're indeed into a mobile-dominated era, and many things have evolved in the realm of how people access the Internet and what sites they use for what purposes. But I still believe that no matter what product is made, how it's marketed will determine whether or if it gains wide acceptance - as long as it's well made, attractive, and meets the needs of users in the marketplace. If it's not well-marketed, there's little chance it will ever rise beyond a niche clientele, no matter what it contains or what its quality.



  • I never ever saw Google doing so much marketing and promotion for any of their products as for Chrome. Chrome ads where absolutely everywhere, there was almost no website that didn't had Chrome ads, Google even went as far as to have a huge banner in their front page something they never did with any other product. And if you went to google.com with another browser they also had a huge banner to make users switch.

    So Chrome actually had a big help in gaining market.

    It is true, everyone I asked about Opera, nobody knew what it was. So I don't actually think Opera never gained market because it had to many features, it was because nobody knew it existed. And that is still true today. Most people don't know Opera exists.

    If it was true that Opera never gained market because of the features, then how come the new Opera is not gaining market either? The new Opera Blink is slim, no features, its actually the browser that has less features than any other, and yet their market share after 2 years is basically the same or even shrunk. If people don't like features then Opera Blink would be the most used browser today and its not. Nobody even knows that it exists, just the same as Opera Presto, so no change at all.

    At least Opera Presto had fanboys behind them doing the marketing, the new Opera does not even has that.



  • Ah… well, there are none so blind as those who will not see. If, as you say, Chrome's and Firefox's phenomenal rise in its user base is due to the unbelievable marketing and advertising that they do... well... you lose once again. Why? For the simple reason that Vivaldi like Opera cannot possibly hope to market and advertise to this extent. If as I maintain, that Chrome and Firefox have rocketed to the astronomical number of users worldwide that they currently have because they give the average user what he wants (and I've described what that is above) - well, you lose again since Vivaldi is not headed in that direction.
    No matter how you want to cut it, Vivaldi has its work cut out for it and the likelihood of its ever being a "trend-setter" is distinctly impossible. The probability that it will rival Blink Opera for a share of its 2% user base and actually match it is questionable but that remains to be seen. That is how I see it.



  • @Pavil82:

    Now how do I know this? Hmmm… How indeed? Well, in general numbers tell the story and for the 17 years that Opera was a suite, it never rose above 3% in terms of popularity. However, in the short time both Chrome and Firefox (standalone browsers) have been in existence, both have risen sharply to challenge IE.

    Who said that they need to challenge the IE or get as big as Firefox or Chrome? Opera had up to 60 million desktop users, that's a huge number. Maybe not even close to what the big players on the market have, but still a big achievement. Even a quarter of that user-base could be enough for a small company like Vivaldi to survive, since their goal isn't to become the market leader or get record profits out of it. It will be perfectly fine if they are able to make enough money to pay their bills and get the product financially secured.



  • @Patata:

    Who said that they need to challenge the IE or get as big as Firefox or Chrome? Opera had up to 60 million desktop users, that's a huge number. Maybe not even close to what the big players on the market have, but still a big achievement. Even a quarter of that user-base could be enough for a small company like Vivaldi to survive, since their goal isn't to become the market leader or get record profits out of it. It will be perfectly fine if they are able to make enough money to pay their bills and get the product financially secured.

    You're taking things out of context. The OP posted that Vivaldi would become a trendsetter and I countered with my reasons against such. Opera may have had 60 million users but Vivaldi is not Opera, bear that in mind. Many former Opera Presto users are very happy with Opera Blink so if you're counting on ALL former Opera users to adopt Vivaldi, you're barking up the wrong tree. And what does that leave? Do you seriously believe Vivaldi is going to make inroads into the most popular browsers (Chrome, Firefox, IE)? And bear in mind that MS will unleash a very formidable browser later this year which will come complete with Cortana. If you take a look at all the posters on this site (and exceedingly small number of members) along with the malcontents on the older Opera forum (those who decry the new Opera Blink but simply can't leave the forum for whatever reason), you're talking about a very small group of hardcore users. In the 17 years Opera ran its innovative suite, it couldn't muster more than 3% of the users "at best". Now many of its former members have left for other browsers and what you have left is split here and there, hence an even small number of users many of whom are very hard to please (some are already crying about Vivaldi not being open sourced). And we're talking about a browser that will be little more than an attempt at a recreation of Opera Presto's features which evidently didn't go over so well first time around. Be serious. Even with the small, dedicated developers working overtime, they cannot possibly compete against the likes of Google, Microsoft and Mozilla and therefore the likelihood of this browser ever being more than a niche player (and an even smaller niche player than previously) is remote. It doesn't surprise me to hear a few in this thread mention how wonderful a return to an integrated mail client will be. They're part of the miniscule crowd for which that is a must. I suppose I must be seen as raining on your party. I've no vested interest one way or the other whether Vivaldi succeeds or not. I'm simply a realist and my money is on its ultimate failure to generate much interest outside this small group of power users.



  • @Patata:

    Even a quarter of that user-base could be enough for a small company like Vivaldi to survive, since their goal isn't to become the market leader or get record profits out of it. It will be perfectly fine if they are able to make enough money to pay their bills and get the product financially secured.

    Ah… so now you admit that they're highly unlikely to be a market leader or get record profits. All they wish to do is pay the bills. I see. Now that is a goal worth shooting for: "let's just make enough to keep the lights burning. We admit we're not going to become a market leader...etc. etc." One has to ask: Will they have stock holders and if so will they be content with such lofty goals? Furthermore, since you're now admitting to much of what I have been saying, I have to ask: Why? Why do you see Vivaldi "NOT" being a market leader or making record profits?


Log in to reply
 

Looks like your connection to Vivaldi Forum was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.