Add "Inbox" to "All Messages"
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@WildEnte said in Add "Inbox" to "All Messages":
so don't take my comments as "what you want is wrong" (preference cannot be argued)
No offence taken. I enjoyed this discussion. It helped me better understand and define our use case, and instead of dismissing my use case, you have asked questions to try and understand.
@WildEnte said in Add "Inbox" to "All Messages":
That being said, I think the difference is not that big
This is where I have to disagree. As an exercise, I put Vivaldi Mail in front of a user and the very first question I was asked was "where is my inbox". They then scrolled down to find the All account section and then asked for that to be moved to the top and to make "All Messages" go away.
I showed them they could get to a similar point using received but they were not interested because they wanted direct easy access to their Inbox. This was a user with one mailbox.
Users with multiple mailboxes want easy access to a unified Inbox as I described before without needing to mess with filters.
@WildEnte said in Add "Inbox" to "All Messages":
Moving mails to other folders is not too convenient in Vivaldi (no drag and drop)
Correct, IMAP folder support in Vivaldi seems like an afterthought and second-class citizen.
@WildEnte said in Add "Inbox" to "All Messages":
I'm not a fan of folders, see my signature
I know of that article, I actually saw it back when it was published.
I don't disagree with most of what you said. tagging/labelling has proven an efficient method for classifying data. Regardless if you talking about emails, blog posts or entities in a social graph.
But for me, this is where I see the problem is that that viewpoint is coming from a single use case and a or nothing point of view.
There are use cases where people share mailboxes and use cases where computer systems read mailboxes.
There is no one size fits all approach and there are use cases where labels, tags, and flags are inappropriate or counter intuitive and folders IE files grouped on a disk are the preferred solution.
The Opportunity Vivaldi is Missing
I believe Vivaldi is missing out on a major opportunity and this is what attracted us to maybe adopting it as a complete solution.
You have a powerful modern web browser that supports calendaring, email and contact management (and a few other features). In the world of cloud data storage, this is a very powerful, very portable and compelling offering that can replace many other solutions.
When reviewing other email clients most of them have labels as an afterthought or there is no support at all. But folder support is great. Vivaldi is the opposite.
By treating folders as second-class citizens and ignoring long-time entrenched behaviours and use cases. Vivaldi is alienating and rejecting an entire segment of users, and increasing the barrier of adoption.
If Vivaldi had to do 2 things (optionally a 3rd) it would put Vivaldi Mail heads and shoulders above most email clients because then folders, labels and filters would be treated like equals and almost all use cases can be easily achieved and the migration path for users would be very simple and easy.
- Add Inbox to "All Messages".
- Fix the "Move to Folder" drop down button (its awful).
- Add/Improve folder support of filters (optional)
- Support drag and drop (Super optional)
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@NaXsa said in Add "Inbox" to "All Messages":
the very first question I was asked was "where is my inbox". They then scrolled down to find the All account section and then asked for that to be moved to the top and to make "All Messages" go away.
Alright, that's not the default but easy to customize (currently a restart is required to make it active):
Correct, IMAP folder support in Vivaldi seems like an afterthought and second-class citizen.
It is, but there will be improvements. They needed to get the core database / filtering concept right first. The client is still young, drag and drop will surely come (my assumption, I'm just a user). Vote up this feature request - the devs don't implement things by order of number of votes, but they are certainly ... inspired ... by the number of votes. https://forum.vivaldi.net/topic/53376/allow-to-drag-and-drop-emails-in-between-different-folders-accounts
But for me, this is where I see the problem is that that viewpoint is coming from a single use case and a or nothing point of view.
There are use cases where people share mailboxes and use cases where computer systems read mailboxes.
There is no one size fits all approachCouldn't agree more, and Vivaldi is all about customization, making things work the way you prefer. With software development and a piece of work as complex as a fully loaded browser with an integrated email client, you just can't accomodate every use case right from the start. They focused first pleasing the core interest group (former Opera M2 users), and they have continuously added features to allow other workflows. First came minimal folder support, label compatibility to Thunderbird, sorting of the views in the panel, ... it's a matter of time, not a matter of fundamental opposition to other workflows. My own blog post is certainly one-sided, which is the nature of an opinion. It's supposed to be educational, not dismissive. There is no absolute truth.
Add Inbox to "All Messages".
Here is where I still struggle: I understand the point that you want to see the individual inbox folders under the unified inbox. We don't have that in Vivaldi. But other than that, isn't Received (with absolutely minor adaptations via the toggle buttons) exactly like "Inbox" apart from the fact that it is not called "Inbox"? It shows messages that have arrived, and it does not show archived or custom imap folders if those toggles are off.
Fix the "Move to Folder" drop down button (its awful).
Yes!
Add/Improve folder support of filters (optional)
Yes!
Support drag and drop (Super optional)
No, just optional, I want that too (for labels) and filters
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My previous post was blocked by akismet as spam for some reason, so let me just say this:
The All Messages solution doesn't work because Vivaldi is missing a filter to exclude sent messages.
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@jakedfw that is the purpose of the Received view under All messages, which contains all received messages but does not show sent messages, whereas the sent view contains all sent messages but doesn't show received ones.
Showing the list in threaded mode may shake this up
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There is no Received view in "All messages." That only exists at the individual account view.
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Okay, I figured it out. There is no "received view" in All Messages. See shot below.
There is a received SUBFOLDER under All Messages that is hidden by default with no indication it exists because the down arrow to expand it is invisible unless you accidentally scroll over it with the mouse. Very odd UI choice, I think.
So this works fine as a unified inbox. I would actually add this to the documentation as a special section, because as it is, the UI is not intuitive at all on this point.
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@jakedfw said in Add "Inbox" to "All Messages":
There is a received SUBFOLDER under All Messages that is hidden by default
nah, I just tested with a new profile - it's visible by default.
@jakedfw said in Add "Inbox" to "All Messages":
I would actually add this to the documentation as a special section, because as it is, the UI is not intuitive at all on this point.
Already there. https://help.vivaldi.com/mail/mail-get-started/mail-panel/
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I agree with the OP.
I've only just installed Vivaldi so may be missing something but whilst "Receive" might omit some key folders (such as Sent), it does includes items from many subfolders in addition to Inbox (regardless of the Custom folder setting). So, for instance in my case it includes e-mails in \Inbox and \Inbox\Subfolder.
What most other clients have (emclient, thunderbird etc.) is a folder which only includes e-mails in the Inbox folder of the accounts, and does not include any e-mail from any other folder or subfolders.
[I realise there are those who think folders are a "bad" thing, but imho Vivaldi should be supporting different ways of working rather than forcing people down a particular route]
Matthew
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@mdovey agreed, Vivaldi should support different workflows, even the inefficient ones
Find your individual accounts with their respective folders in the "all accounts" section of the mail panel. You can show/hide and rearrange the order of the sections in the mail settings
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@WildEnte thanks but that doesn't address the original request unless I'm missing something.
A more concrete example:
Let use say I have two accounts - Account1 for work and Account2 for personal (this is actually a real scenario I've just anonymized and simplified - in practice there are more accounts and folders...).
Account1 has the following folders: Inbox, Sent, and a subfolder of Inbox called Stuff (perhaps that is where my previous e-mail client archived stuff).
Account2 has the folders: Inbox, Sent, and a Inbox subfolder called Done (again maybe that's how a previous e-mail client worked).
Now if I understand correctly, "All Messages" will display all e-mails from the following accounts/folders:
Account1/Inbox, Account1/Inbox/Stuff, Account1/Sent, Account2/Inbox, Account2/Inbox/Sorted, Account2/Sent
Whereas, Received will display all e-mails from the following accounts/folders:
Account1/Inbox, Account1/Inbox/Stuff, Account2/Inbox, Account2/Inbox/Sorted
What other clients have is a virtual folder "All Inboxes" which displays all the e-mails from just the following account/folders:
Account1/Inbox, Account2/Inbox
It isn't clear how to replicate this behaviour in Vivaldi.
Matthew
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@mdovey the /stuff/ subfolders are custom folders. Go into received under all messages and above the message list uncheck the "show custom folders" toggle button
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But that doesn't provide a means of display just the e-mails in Account1/Inbox and Account2/Inbox in a single unified folder.
Matthew
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@mdovey it doens't?
If you go to received and uncheck "show messages from custom imap folders", Received will show all messages from Account1/Inbox, Account2/Inbox, Account2/Inbox etc. without also showing AccountX/any_other_folder
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@WildEnte Ah, now I see. I hadn't noticed the little icons above the mail item list. I had been right clicking on the Received folders, where this is a very similarly named option which removes the Custom Imap Folders from the folder list rather than acting upon Received folders.
Matthew
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@mdovey said in Add "Inbox" to "All Messages":
which removes the Custom Imap Folders from the folder list rather than acting upon Received folders
Aaah. I see how that can be confusing. As you probably have noticed, that right click menu controls which views are available in the panel. Some prefer flags, others labels, others folders. Hardly anyone uses everything, so that setting helps cleaning up the panel...
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