Suggested business model: Vivaldi as a subscription broker
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@wildente said in Suggested business model: Vivaldi as a subscription broker:
but with benefit to the content providers
I think you mean benefit to the users.
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@code3 , I still think the only way to implement a payment, is with an addition of a VPN, as Brave and UR have, both have a VPN in the browser, but it is not free like the fake that Opera carries.
If you use the VPN of Brave or UR, you have to pay a monthly fee., but then you have a valid VPN provider.
I can't think of anything else that justifies a payment in a browser. -
@catweazle This is not a payment in the browser but a semi decentralized protocol that gives access to content that would normally be paid. It is bought on a Vivaldi website, not the browser, and could technically be implemented in another browser.
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@code3 , it is clear that Brave and UR do not have an infrastructure with enough servers to have their own VPN, but they have agreed with a provider that pays them a commission for inserting their VPN into browsers, just as Vivaldi has done with Bing and the other default search engines and sponsor links.
When the user registers for the VPN service it pays a commission to Brave and UR. -
@catweazle Thatโs fine, although personally I do not like the whole affiliate VPN sponsored stuff.
This feature request has almost nothing to do with Tor, Proxies, or VPNs. It is about a protocol that would allow people to pay for content with money instead of ads.
Similar to Sia or Protocol Labs, Vivaldi Technologies could earn money from this protocol. -
@code3 , well, I can only give my opinion and it still depends on the company's decisions.
Although I don't think it goes this way, it somehow doesn't fit Vivaldi's philosophy.
I don't think they're doing so badly either, it's a small company of 40 employees, dog included and more than 2 million users.
Vivaldi even maintains his own football team. -
@wildente There's one big problem here: Browser lock-in. It sounds like this subscription would only work on Vivaldi, and therefore, would lock you into the Vivaldi browser.
That's contrary to the idea that a website should work, whatever browser you're using. An idea that Vivaldi (and Opera, at least, when von Tetzchner was running the show) has always supported.
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@catweazle said in Suggested business model: Vivaldi as a subscription broker:
somehow doesn't fit Vivaldi's philosophy.
Why? No ads, no tracking, pioneering great new technologies, giving back to quality news sources and other publishers.
@Eggcorn That is a valid concern, but Vivaldi can make it cross browser. The code could be packaged as an open source background script that can be added to a web extension. They could use a JavaScript blockchain such as Nimiq (which is environmentally friendly and supports Nimiq OASIS fiat swap and has private transactions in the roadmap). An agreed amount of NIM could be transferred to the publisher by the extension after spending a certain amount of time on the page. Extra NIM could be given to publishers using a like button built into the browser. And the user could pay using PayPal, cryptocurrency (NIM or ETH or BTC), or a credit/debit card. Vivaldi could make money through the arranging of partnerships and being the OASIS swap client.
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@code3 said in Suggested business model: Vivaldi as a subscription broker:
JavaScript blockchain such as Nimiq (which is environmentally friendly
How can JavaScript be environmentally friendly or unfriendly?
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@eggcorn Nimiq (a cryptocurrency), not javascript. You know why, for instance, Bitcoin is an environmental disaster, yes?
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@code3 said in Suggested business model: Vivaldi as a subscription broker:
i think you mean benefit to the users.
No, content providers. Brave blocks their income source (Ads) with no direct replacement. The indirect replacement is that Brave offer is a share of their own income source (ads) that is distributed by goodwill of their users. Worst model ever for a content provider.
@eggcorn said in Suggested business model: Vivaldi as a subscription broker:
Browser lock-in. It sounds like this subscription would only work on Vivaldi, and therefore, would lock you into the Vivaldi browser.
I imagine this to be a Vivaldi Service (hence I posted in the services section). Neatly integrated in the browser but as @code3 said they could offer an extension on other browsers or find some other way (like readly does).
@catweazle said in Suggested business model: Vivaldi as a subscription broker:
Although I don't think it goes this way, it somehow doesn't fit Vivaldi's philosophy.
This should be done openly, transparent, and if you don't want to use it the browser and all websites will still work as they do today. It is just a different and convenient way to get money from consumers willing to pay to content providers that generate high quality content. Nothing wrong with that.
The real challenge is going to be convincing content providers to do this. There was a time when I could buy individual articles on several sites, they all have stopped that.
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@ayespy said in Suggested business model: Vivaldi as a subscription broker:
You know why, for instance, Bitcoin is an environmental disaster, yes?
High electricity usage on the Bitcoin mining servers?
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@wildente , no, apart from a huge waste of electricity and consequently a environmental problem, Bitcoin and other cryptocurrecy are increasingly crystallized as an economic bubble that can burst with dire consequences. That's why I don't think this fits Vivaldi's philosophy and a lot of people are going to look for another browser if Vivaldi gets into this kind of business, sponsors, like Ecosia included.
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@catweazle said in Suggested business model: Vivaldi as a subscription broker:
@wildente , no, apart from a huge waste of electricity and consequently a environmental problem
Neither did I bring up cryptocurreny, nor do I think it makes sense to discuss the technical realization before the business model is drafted, nor do I think the concept hinges on cryptocurreny technology. To quote myself from above:
@wildente said in Suggested business model: Vivaldi as a subscription broker:
Every problem for which a perfectly working solution exists can be solved more complicated with cryptocurrency technology
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@eggcorn That's the main point. Nimiq (for instance) is not based on such activity.
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@eggcorn In order to create more Bitcoin, it relies on the trustworthiness of the miners. But it is also a trust less system. To solve this, mining takes a hugely inflated processing power so that no one person can mine all the Bitcoin. As @Ayespy said this results in a huge waste of energy. It is called Proof of Work.
Nimiq (and other many other blockchains) uses a Proof of Stake model where miners are trustworthy because they lay down money. If they are caught cheating the algorithm takes the money away. And unless one person owns all the money the mining will be well divided among people. Nimiq also uses Rust WASM binaries to limit the processing power needed.
If Vivaldi used blockchain to help in a semi decentralized content provider protocol then they should probably use a PoS blockchain.
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I'm a little sad that this entire discussion was almost exclusively about cryptocurrencies, which was completely beside the point. So long, idea.
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@wildente Sorry!
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@luetage said in Vivaldi should move on from being just another browser:
Responding to your comment in that other thread, My line of thinking is that the other browsers' business models are such that they have no interest in helping users to solve that whole subscription mess.
Vivaldi on the other hand is a bit special because their business model is to partner with certain sites already. News outlets might like it because it just adds another potential revenue stream, and I'm pretty sure everything is welcome as long as it's hardly any cost to implement and maintain.
The concept works in general as shown e.g. in the form of Readly but that is not really seamlessly integrated. Vivaldi is the point of access for everything on the web anyway. Total value add.